Newfound Joy part 2

http://normalbobsmith.com/hatemail495_part2.html
If you haven’t already been convinced of the newfound joy that’s been discovered in Christianity and all the magical promises it offers to its followers, Part 2 of Joy’s files should all but drive it through your skull.
“Does your mom think that when someone writes to you “you suck” and you respond “on pretty women’s breasts” that that is a positive thing?”

664 thoughts on “Newfound Joy part 2

  1. John

    Joy writes as though every tangential and meandering thought she has must make it into her emails. Kudos to you Bob for summing up her “argument” and coming up with a response. I’m not sure I would have known where to begin. I guess it speaks to your years of experience in responding to these people. Keep up the good work!

  2. Peggy Miene

    wow this is pretty cool; it’s a whole new realm for me… Bob is the first person to ever publish me… i don’t really have much to say except keep the comments coming…i love feed back..

    he didn’t get it all in order though, there’s more, and you guys can vist my fb page Peggy Miene and hate me from that perspective…

    anyways i guess i’ll keep writing as i keep getting inspired to and then you guys can have more fresh meat…

    I wrote bob something new today; hopefully he’ll answer back… lets see..

  3. Peggy Miene

    i especailly like the qoutes, (i’m a terrible speller- i know, i’m more of a writer because of the thoughts i get, not really sentence structure/ spelling) like i was saying, the things you qoute slay me… i think it’s so funny,,,

  4. Peggy Miene

    you know what’s funny, there’s this woman, her name was joy too (on Bob’s hatemail) and she said she would pray for Bob to have God get his attention in some way, maybe I’m the one…

    what do you guys think?

    I’m pretty resilient; as long as you guy hang in there with me, i’m in there too… and i like the ride..

  5. Peggy Miene

    Bobby Jo, enlighten me, what are my insecurites??

    I’d really love to hear this… no cares about me as much as i care about bob… to tell me, will you?

  6. Peggy Miene

    it’s like a girl fight, are we fighting over bob, opps, you got me, one of my insecurites is that i think i’m ugly,, and fat.. :(

    but i have a theory, it doesn’t matter what you look like,, it’s what you feel like that counts… you, know, it’s like what does a guy want?

    someone who looks good or someone who feels good?? my mom always said, a man wants to know he lieing next to SOMEONE..

    but she’s skinny.. what does she know..

  7. Peggy Miene

    You guys just have opened me up to a whole new forum to exorcize my demons on (I’m so excited I can’t hardly write straight)
    See, I like to test reality, metaphysics, that’s what I mean about empirical knowledge,
    And I feel (perceive) that since you guys have no standards here than I can really just say whatever..i think God has prepared me for this new stage… I’ve already encountered so many ‘battles’ already…
    See my theory is that in this life (here on earth) I have to leave everything behind.
    It all has to get burned away…that’s the fire that John the Baptist says Jesus will baptize us with.
    We either choose to do it here, with God, or we choose to do it in hell, eternally.
    Of course this is just a really small explanations of it.. I’m just too excited.
    It’s either Peter or Paul who says, that God’s judgment starts with God’s children and if we barley escape how will unbelievers escape?
    Life here isn’t supposed to be ‘happy’ (even though I want Bob to be happy) it’s not the kind of happiness that is most talked about. But being content.. I think that’s better put.
    How can we be happy in such a fallen world?
    Bobby jo, you look mad… in your picture.. why are you so mad…
    And I was joking about the math thing… I could’ve just used a calculator… Bob you were right, people really do misunderstand a person on the internet… (I guess jokes don’t translate) I’m not much of a comedian anyways…

  8. Peggy Miene

    this is the first thing i wrote to bob oct 27 called a qeustion

    you’re a strange character; how come you hate your parents so much? from your own words; it sounds like they really took care of you;
    it sounds like you grew up in a really nice environment.
    Not like Skater Bob/ Shaggy who’s father throws his father’s day card right to his face and then on to the ground.

    and then you make use of these people who REALLY don’t know any better because they didn’t have someone teaching them. You send skater bob to pass out your ‘satan tracks’

    instead of doing it yourself? where is your strength of character?

    if you don’t stand for something you fall for everything…your beliefs don’t really communicate the better side of who you are in fact they expose you; you seem ungrateful; and you seem like a spoiled brat who got everything… now you make use of people who had nothing…free will; you probably know this better than most growing up with the parents you did.

    you know that just because your parents are Christians doesn’t automatically make you one; you’ve chosen for yourself who you want to be; that’s obvious

    i think, in contrast to them, you must really feel like crap and everytime you are next to them; just by the way that they are you feel like crap about yourself because you are too prideful to submit to God. that’s why you attack them this way. You want to hide so much from their light.

    With God’s grace, when they get to heaven, and God forbid if you go to hell, they will understand and see all the opprotunities you had to turn to God and refused; they won’t be sad about it; God will make it clear to them.

    God says in His word that nothing should be above Him, that means friends, child, spouse, parent.

    Do you think they will forfiet God’s grace for you? you ultimately belong to God; you have to answer to God for yourself; not them answer for you.

    if you go to hell it’s because you picked it…

  9. Peggy Miene

    i also wrote this

    when the fame starts going to your head it’s all down hill from there; i think you are setting your self up; you think you are so clever playing dress up like satan but; keep going down this road and you will see him for real… You say your mother is/was a Christian.
    Of course you know about the parent commandant; it’s the first commandment with a promise; go against that, you’re asking for a curse; of course you won’t be able to tell because it all looks like a blessing… Bob; I say go for yours; go all the way… go full throttle; you’ve volunteered yourself to be a living examples… I can’t wait to see the results. I’m into empirical knowledge. You make a good specimen

    I really can’t wait to see how this will all turn out for you; once you’ve sold yourself out and the real pressure starts you won’t have any place to turn to because you’ve turned away from God and His help and because you sold yourself out so completely that you won’t have any legs to stand on. No one’s going to hear your cries or come to your aid; or even believe you because you’ve made everything a joke. This happens a lot actually. I hope it happens fast for you; because I’m impatient for information. Please work quickly; Normal Bob, please…

  10. Peggy Miene

    i also wrote this

    I’ve got an answer for you and I’m glad you posed the question because it made me half a percent smarter…
    You ask (I doubt it’s a real inquiry but I’m sucker for a debate)
    “How can you for even a moment enjoy a heaven where your fellow human beings are doused in fire every day for the rest of eternity?”
    I’ll answer it with a question.
    Don’t you enjoy walking around freely while there are people in jail and on death row?
    Don’t you enjoy the comforts of your home while there are so many homeless people; people you do exploit to make a living off of?
    I’m going to anticipate your next response.
    Maybe you’ll say something like “I didn’t put those people in jail; I didn’t make those people homeless.”
    No, you didn’t but because hardened criminals are in jail you get to enjoy freedom.
    Heaven wouldn’t be heaven if there were unrepentant liars there, or unrepentant thieves, or unrepentant rapists.
    I would hope not. It’s people like that who make this place such crap. People always have to watch their backs because there is always someone out there trying to take a buck off of them or make a buck off of them.
    Justice, why would you feel the passion you did for someone who sells drugs to a pregnant girl? You yelled at that guy, and you felt justified in yelling at that guy. There was a time when you didn’t like being around him; he repulsed you. What do you call that?
    You mention in your Love diaries how you were bullied, or harassed in high school. You were terrorized.
    That’s what that is; you were tormented, harassed and terrorized.
    Now you do it to Christians. You turned into what you disliked. You turned into the bully. I read some advice you gave this person in one of your hatemails and you essentially told them to be a bully. To make fun of the Christian and his beliefs in front of their friends and making all the friends laugh at them. You called this LOGIC. That’s not logic. That’s just bulling. That’s being on the offense.
    Logic is laying out an argument, like building a wall, being on the defense.
    Anyways, you’re an artist, why don’t you make real art.
    Isn’t this just a gimmick?
    Don’t you believe in you talents enough to create real art with a real perspective?
    Not just sketch but a collection. Not just jobs other people tell you to do but, your own voice. You know like Mozart, he worked freelance too but it was so that he could have the freedom to pursue his own ideas…
    You have lots of ideas but you don’t have any real ideas.
    Make something man… what are you waiting for.. .create something..
    Just because everyone makes you feel like your offering a true perspective doesn’t really mean that you are. You know this just as well as I do, most people are sheep, mere followers, they aren’t thinking about anything so for you to look to them as confirmation that you are a voice isn’t very smart.
    Who’s following who? Are you following them because they say you are something or do they follow you because you really are something which brings me to my next point?
    If I had to make a judgment on your character you’re not very honest. I know I bring this up a lot; but it’s only because you make it seem like you do have this noble character; you’re selling a false image of yourself. You didn’t post everything I said. You pick and choose what you want to post on your hate mail wall and if you do that with me then I’m to conclude that you do that with everyone.
    You can’t run forever, eventually you will have to pay the piper.
    Anyways that’s it, oh, you should be careful for those Muslims, unless you have a death wish, which you might, you probably hate it here as much as I do. It seems like you’re looking for a way out but you can’t do it yourself.

    oh you should post this, this is good stuff, you’re the first person to ever publish me and i got a new hater because of you… thanks…

    I’m like Bill Murry’s character in Little Shop of Horrors..i suspect you are too… a glutton for punishment

    Sent to: amazingstrangersnyc

  11. Peggy Miene

    and this these are a whole bunch of short ones

    i’ve been looking at your portfolio, if i follow the progression, it seems like you started out with real intentions and then you started to give up, and you landed on this gimmick..

    in tens years, you got worn down… you started out serious and working at your craft and then you got tired and sold out

    Go to your portfolio and look at it, if you are really so open to looking at your flaws… the progression is obvious… 87 – 98, then it’s 98 to present and not much.. and then it’s Jesus Dress up.

    you sold out… you’ve become a leach supposedly exposing leaches, your micheal moore… a parisite.. really,

    i hope you take this in the right way, constructive critism.. (i’m a bad speller)

    you give up a lot, you’re always giving up, it’s always “i started, i gave up, i started, i gave up” you should listen to this song called Ruby Blue by Roisin Murphy

    Lyrics:
    You never get to give it all you got
    Cause you forgot to take it to the top
    Oh Ruby Blue
    Why do you make a start
    With no means to go on- end of lyrics

    and another thing, you have so many people giving you advice and you ask for so much advice and reassurance and you make no use of it…

    you have plenty and it goes to waste… there are people who have less than you (less talent, less friends, less support) and they produce more…

    a sure sign of spoiled bratdom…

    you’re like the public school system, throw money at it and throw money at it and nothing comes out…
    I think I can see what happened with you.
    You blame God for your failures, I mean look at how tedious and meticulous you are with that satan’s salvation comic.
    That thing is huge; I doubt many people have read thru that thing. It’s too long.
    It seems like the one thing you did finish, of your own stuff.
    It’s your claim to fame. There’s no doubt. Your 42 years old. That’s only 8 years away from being 50, I mean you’re an old man already, really you are, your prospects are drying up unless you so something drastic and since you hate God already might as well make a buck off of Him.
    Of course you feel some resentment toward God. You’re wondering where your success is; where your girlfriend/ wife is, where your own apt is so you can stop sharing one like some silly college student.
    How are you going to retire? How are you going to eat?
    You have a gripe with the world. That’s obvious. And so you saw a way out, and you took it. The cheap road.
    And I know that you said that “you don’t have time to read all my mail” but I think that’s a lie.
    I can tell because you are so meticulous with everything else, because you read all your mail to see if there is anything in it you can use, and because you answer so much of your mail.
    I can tell you comb thru it. Every page has it’s corresponding links and you underline things and you don’t have a day job, so all you do is think and draw and read e-mail and work on your little shipments blah, blah.
    I imagine your days are pretty open.
    And you love hearing about yourself.
    You are narcissistic, you fell in love with yourself and even though you portray a self deprecating exterior. That’s just part of your mask isn’t it?
    That’s not who you really are inside of yourself. You’re a little bit sneaky…but I think that’s just your way of being able to get people to compliment you because you are so shy.
    This is conceited of me (but I know my strengths) I’m good at reading people… so good that eventually you’re probably going to block me because you can’t stand to be seen so clearly and it’ll be an attempt to run away from your reflection. It happens to me all the time.
    I’ve made my peace with it.
    Anyways food for thought.

  12. Peggy Miene

    and this

    I read something today that made me think of you. I was at the library with my son and there was a book on display called “Bubble Gum Artist” by Lester Fizz.
    I probably picked it out because of you.
    Anyways on one of the pages there’s Uncle Edgar talking to his nephew Lester and he’s pointing toward this sculpture and he tells Lester:

    “The way I see it, Lester, anyone can be an artist. Look at this sculpture. What do you see? What don’t you see? What do you want to see?”
    I read this line and I thought about your view of the world/ life etc. and my thought moved on to how I see God as a great Artist, the first Artist/ Creator and how we are spectators doing what Uncle Edgar told Lester to do.
    Ask questions, What do we see when we look at the world/life?
    What don’t we see when we look at the world/life?
    What do we want to see when we look at the world/life?
    Then I read some more and Lester finds out he’s got this talent for creating art with the bubbles he blows from his bubble gum and then there’s this great line (again totally makes me think of God the Artist and Creator)
    “Then shaping the gum with his front teeth, Lester breathed life into his art.”
    The whole story is about Lester overcoming his cousin the antagonist and remembering his Uncle’s advice.
    Art is making what you want to see.
    I heard it explained to me this way once.
    God created the world out of an abundance of His love…that makes sense to me… call me stupid but if I were eternal and I was all love, I bet eventually all that love would spill over into, unto something else.
    But I’m a woman, I know all about love spilling over…
    I thought about this after my last letter to you.
    I guess my ultimate question is
    Does anyone ever get to love you?
    Yeah, that’s the question, you say you want love, you seem like you want a girl friend but, if and when she gets there, what is she going to find there..
    Woman are simple, I mean a real woman.. all we really want is love… to relate to you.
    If you can’t relate to her because you’re all tied up within yourself then how will she relate to you…
    How will get to know you, really know you?
    That’s my question. I mean does anyone get to love you…
    Love isn’t only about what you can give a girl; it’s also about what you let her give you.
    This is hard to explain. Sometimes there are these types of guys who don’t let a girl in.
    They won’t or don’t or can’t share with a girl. Like they can’t be soft or feel or something.
    The girl can never get close to him… and that’s all she really wants.
    What do you think is meant by that Talking Heads song:
    “is she gonna put sugar on my tongue, is she gonna gimmie gimmie some, she’ll put it right there on my tongue”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LTCdt4tk8k
    I know that you don’t believe in prayer, but this is my prayer….I’m exposing myself to pain here…I’m exposing myself to you mocking me, I’m exposing myself to you putting this on your hate mail…
    I’m taking a chance here on you because I think you’re worth it. Ultimately you should do what you think is right…
    I pray that you don’t make fun of me, my prayer is that you will be what I think you are… a good guy… I pray that what I want to be there will be there.
    I pray that you don’t create what you hate… make fun of me and then make me angry for believing that you are someone who’s worth giving my best to.
    It’s crazy right, I don’t know you from a hole in the ground but I believe from what you’ve written that there is someone in there. Like a real person…
    And I also believe that I can make art too. That I can create something that wasn’t there before. That I can be used to breathe life into you.
    That you can be something that I’d like to see… I want to you be happy, and not lonely, and to have good things and to really see God…. what God really is all about…
    and to really create great art…
    anyways maybe I said too much…oh well, what is there better to do than to spend life telling people what I feel….Take care Bob…

    Sent to: amazingstrangersnyc

  13. Peggy Miene

    i think this is the best one

    I’m not trying to tear you down. I’m talking to you from the heart, you remind me of someone I used to know and care about very much.
    I know I sound like I’m trying to manipulate you, and that’s how he felt about me too. (go figure I wasn’t even a Christian then, I was only in love with him)
    Gee I wish I could be that smart to create a whole elaborate scheme like that; imagine a 33 year old tearing down a 42 year old and I’m not even naked; you are really giving me a lot of credit but thanks.
    So I guess you could say I’m an expert on people who run away from love when it’s staring at them in the face and twist words around and are antisocial and deflect.
    In other words people who are REALLY afraid and a have a grim view of the world.
    I’ve had many years to think about it so I guess you can say it’s my expertise…
    It’s hard to get close to some people… you just seem like you have so much potential… you ‘seem’ like you have so much to offer…but then nothing comes out… people like you have always been a mystery to me.
    How to get close to someone who’s hard… and closed off and won’t let you near them?
    That’s what your response to me is about. Just another way to push someone away…
    I guess it’s all in how the information goes into your head because I don’t hear me laying any ugliness on you at all; I actually thought I was complimenting you most of the time. And some constructive criticism. All artists need constructive criticism, don’t they?
    Why do you get so defensive?
    What are you defending yourself from?
    Reminds me of Tricky’s ‘Christiansands’ song: “My defenses become fences”
    You’re locked in.
    Can’t you hear what I’m saying…can’t you understand. Can’t you tell the difference between ugliness and concern?
    I’m not afraid of anything… I’m not afraid to be honest with you (a perfect stranger) and put myself on the line to reach out to you.
    You have to admit that it’s consistent with my beliefs.
    ‘If’ there is a hell, I WOULDN’T want you to go there, because I DON’T think you’re life is worthless.
    I think your life IS valuable. But you can twist it however you want.
    But the fact is that ‘if’ there is a hell and you don’t believe in Jesus you will go there. That’s not an opinion. You’re gripe about that isn’t with me… it’s with God.
    Why don’t you just spend some time wrestling it out with Him instead of trying to infiltrate on people?
    To a certain extant I don’t know you personally but
    1) you put a lot out there about yourself. You invite scrutiny.
    2) And I know so many people like you; I come from the world you come from despite what you’d like to tell yourself.
    There’s this Christian philosopher guy and he says that as people we should be able to look at Christians as an example of how Jesus can affect someone’s life but this guy also said that we’re just people. Don’t judge Jesus by what people do.
    Judge Him for Himself. Test Him for yourself.
    You’re absolutely right; I was at my worst when I came to Jesus. An emotional wreck. What I thought to be true about the world turned out to be a complete lie.
    This is just one factor but it was the main catalyst:
    Someone who said he loved me totally just used me up and dumped me, played with my head and made me really sick. I was already in bad shape when I met him. He left me worse. This is what people do to each other, he was pretty self reliant.
    I’m sorry for what your mother has gone thru, I don’t know what that is, I didn’t have the experiences that you’re describing but then again these are from your point of view.
    She is still hanging on to Him isn’t she? So much so that you see her becoming more and more like me and so much so that you’re afraid she will let you go? There must be a reason for her to hang on to Him don’t you think? And it’s not just her though, it’s your dad too… they were probably together before you were born right? Wouldn’t you say they are older and wiser than you?
    If it’s just people getting into their heads then these people must be pretty powerful to convince older folks. Are they educated? If so I find it even harder to believe that they got swindled by some cult.
    Just to be safe I’ll give you some insight even if you do flush it. People in cults like Jim Jones don’t read their Bibles, but you’ve proved by your many examples that your parents do read their Bibles.
    You know it well enough to use the verses.
    Bob, maybe you’re the one who’s making her seem like she’s a ‘defeatist.’
    Look at what she’s up against. I know a lot about this… you tear her down.
    You may be honest with someone but that still doesn’t make you good.
    Like the type of guy who says things like “look I only want to sleep with you but I don’t want to have anything deeper than that” which very well may be true but all the while knowing that it will always get complicated for the girl? Isn’t that the big joke? Got to get out before she gets clingy?
    So your logic is flawed and not well thought out at best.
    Bob, I’m a writer too, whatever I’ve written to you here, I’ve already written in some form on the internet already.
    Check out my fb page, you’re already one of my friends. My name is Peggy Miene. That’s M-i-e-n-e.
    It’s all on there. Posting my writings on your hate mail isn’t anything that I’m not willing to do myself.
    What’s so astonishing?
    That I feel? That I think? That I have opinions? That I question? That I confront? That I let people see what I’m thinking?
    If you think this little bit is astonishing and entertaining you should read what I’ve written there.
    As an outside perspective on me all you did was tell me that I fill you with wonder, that I’m extraordinary.
    How is that something bad? I could decide to twist it and take it as ugliness but I won’t, it sounds more like a compliment to me.
    See? Free will.
    I don’t live my life worried about what other people are going to think of me… that doesn’t rule me…even if they completely misinterpret me.
    Because I know who I am in Christ, I know who I am in front of God and no one can take that away from me.
    No one can really ever know anyone, unless they share themselves and people are always going to interpret that information by the way they view the world.
    I’m open to it… I don’t mind it… I like it. It always makes me better… scrutiny makes me better, I’ve already seen myself the way God sees me. What can a mere person do?
    You haven’t done that. That’s why you feel the need to be so defensive, you’re afraid to be seen so you dodge and duck… shadow boxer.
    Every single circumstance I’ve gone thru in my life has been used by God to shape me, so I use it. That’s called a being a living sacrifice.
    How am I living in fear?
    You should do what you think is right. I did.
    I thought it was right to write to you the way that I have been.
    Post them, I want people to hear, I know some people will understand even if others don’t and my life is a testimony to what Jesus has done in my life and how He has saved me.
    I’ll put up with the mockery if even one person can hear and understand.
    If I astonished you then I’ll astonish others too.
    I’m here in the world for a reason and a purpose.
    I astonish you by just my little words.
    You have to paint your face in red, shave your head, get dressed up, create a gimmick, and do stunts to be astonishing.
    This is who I am… it’s not concocted at all.
    It’s God using my life and my life’s circumstances. That’s what makes me ‘astonishing’ Thanks I like that. I’ll add it to the list.
    The one thing I do ask is that you put it up in order… lay it all out there.. let the people decide.
    I believe in freedom..

  14. Peggy Miene

    then this

    btw, my fb page is open to the pubilc so your viewers can see it.
    thanks only to God, i must say it’s pretty good. A work of art, by the First Artist…

  15. Peggy Miene

    and this is the last one

    I got question. You can answer it if you want or not, but I just want to put it out there. Yes maybe even to get it into you head… so you can think about it, not for any diabolical reasons other than that. Thinking is good right; we wouldn’t want to shield ourselves from that?

    What motive would I have in making you a Christian?

    I haven’t asked you for any money.

    I haven’t suggested that you go to any specific church.

    So what could my motive possible be?

    Hypothetically speaking if you did miraculously become a Christian and we never corresponded again I wouldn’t gain anything from you.

    As far as ethics goes people do everything for a reason..

    What’s mine?

  16. Peggy Miene

    yep, i like to think and write… it’s one of my passions,, and can’t help it…

    I wish i could write more but, i bet i’m being over bearing, i really don’t mean to be, i just am…

  17. Julius

    Peggy… ya poor thang. Working out your issues by torturing visitors of this website with your endless and barely-coherent typing isn’t going to solve anything or get your point across. Try reviewing (aka – re-reading before posting) and try to keep yourself to 3 points max per email rant (hence the importance of conciseness). It’ll help you look less like a nut-job panning for attention.

  18. Peggy Miene

    I actually am bipolar, my dad would yell at my mom all the time… growing up in a house like that does change the chemials in the brain… but it’s my lot in life… i just hope you guys read it all…

    i always have more.. in fact i’m working on something new… but i want it to be really good,

    and it’s ok bob, you don’t have to answer back… i don’t need you to…

    thanks for the forum

  19. Peggy Miene

    I was going to take a nap but you guys inspired me.
    Things are always evolving. What I think this is may very well change into something else… so nothings fixed..but if I had to say why I’m here I guess as far as I can understand this will be a study (experiment) on human cruelty.
    How cruel can you guys be to me, for absolutely no reason…
    How will you guys take it, what will happen to you…(karma) lets see…
    I’m not gonna worry too much on perfection or on whether you guys understand me or not…
    That’s not the point. God knows who I am…and He’s the ultimate judge.
    It’s better to understand than to be understood…
    And how will you guys treat the least of these… if you guys are so loving how will you treat a person when they are pouring out their love on you.
    I don’t want to hate anyone, I’m tired of that…
    I think it’s interesting how you guys perceive me as attacking,
    I have a theory on that…
    It has to do with cats…
    Did you ever notice how cats freak out?
    They always feel like they are being hunted the phrase scardy cat comes to mind…
    I think it’s because since they are always hunting they view the world as if something is always hunting them.
    They run because they feel like something is chasing them when there isn’t anything chasing them.
    They feel this way because they are always chasing something… that’s how they view the world.
    So you guys perceive me as attacking you because you guys are always attacking people.
    So you just assume that everyone is attacking you instead of really listening to a person…
    If someone tells you the truth, you just assume they are attacking you.
    Here’s a good example.
    Spinach in the teeth..
    I’m the type of person that if I had spinach in my teeth I would want someone to tell me.
    So I treat people as such..
    But I’ve tested this, most times if you tell someone they have spinach in their teeth, they take it as if you are trying to hurt their feelings… when in fact I was trying to keep them from looking stupid in front of the next person..
    I was trying to help them, but they misunderstood that help, as if I were trying to hurt them…
    They would rather walk around with spinach in their teeth than to have someone point it out.
    Of course if they get in front of a mirror and see the spinach they will say to themselves.
    “why didn’t anyone tell me I had spinach in my teeth.

  20. Peggy Miene

    I woke up this morning and as usual I was confronted with my biggest demon.
    Why didn’t my ex love me? He totally used me up; he sold me, literally (I could go into details but I think it’s pretty self explanatory)
    He was an atheist too, I’ve asked and asked him for answer and nothing…
    He says he loves me, he says I’m beautiful but why would he do something like that.
    Maybe one of you guys can answer that… maybe I’ll get some insight out of one of you.
    I was an atheist too at the time.. and I guess I discovered how people who have no regard for human life can’t possibly be right.
    How can you treat someone who loves you like that?
    Why hasn’t he ever answered my questions? Why can’t he face himself and be honest?
    Pride, he prefers his pride over setting me free…
    Sadly, and I’ve been working on this, my whole value has been set on him. I gave him my best and that what he did with it.
    Same thing here.. I give you guys my best and I get insults.. and mocking…
    I don’t want to be like that..
    The truth is I did read Bob, very well. Whether you guys believe it or not, that can’t be denied..
    I know what it is to want, to want answers; the big answers.. God answers a lot of my questions but not all, (I’ll call him dave)
    These questions Dave has to answer for himself. He chooses not to..
    So because I know what it is to want, I know how to appreciate the small things like having body soap..
    Or, heat in my home, I drive to pet smart.. windy weather and leaves…
    These little things make me happy in so much want.
    The one thing I can say that is really pathetic is that I actually do care about bob even though I don’t know him at all.
    I think I can even say I love him. After reading everything I read that he puts out there.
    Who wouldn’t love him, he’s loveable.
    That’s why you guys love him right?

  21. Peggy Miene

    I think that’s the most embarrassing thing, to love someone you don’t even know… it sounds corny and needy..
    But I think it helps me understand Jesus more.. He did this.. He wasn’t scared to be corny.
    All the way to death..
    Bob thinks that it’s Satan who’s getting crucified. That it’s satan who’s getting the bad rep.
    But bob, let me ask you, I know you have a lot of ‘friends’ but do they tell you the truth? Do they care about you and fret when you might get hurt? Do they worry about you?
    “dave” has a lot of friends. In fact that’s what he feels justifies him. He says “I have a lot of friends who love me” but it’s more that he has a lot of friends who love to see him act like a fool; they love to laugh at him. He of course doesn’t see it this way.. he thinks they are laughing with him..
    That’s all for now, maybe I’ll get more later..
    You know some of the best artist had mental illnesses, Van Gogh, Beethoven,
    Handel’s servant says that while he was writing the music for the Messiah Handel wrote as if he were possessed, he wrote for 24 days straight.
    This is one movement of it
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76RrdwElnTU
    Am I ashamed of being bipolar, no, I use it.
    Am I ashamed that I love people, no, that’s a good thing.
    Am I ashamed that I have deep deep issues, no; it’s what helps me see people better…
    Lonely, me no, not lonely at all; I have a husband who listens to me… I have God who understands me when everyone else doesn’t.
    I have a little bit but everything I have is real.. who can be lonely with that.. it’s better than having a lot of fake stuff..

  22. Peggy Miene

    this isn’t true:
    “When the pain is too great and the conversation reverts to the realization that the god she loves allows for the torturing of the people she loves, all talk grinds to a halt.” -Bob

    this is more like it:
    Yeah, I suppose this ends the “Newfound Joy/Hell on Earth” files. There’s no way I can respond to all she’s written me. You should see my inbox! -Bob

    it’s not God who chooses torture for them, they choose it for themselves… free will… i can’t make “dave” tell me the truth. It’s his choice…

    he chooses to give back evil for good… i wish i could say go ask him, yourself but, (i would love to hear him finally give an answer) he won’t answer…

    people are cruel to each other… God has never been cruel to me… He saves me always… i wish people were like God… then i could really enjoy them,,, it’s people who make me sad… i wish you guys could hear me…

  23. Atheist

    Peggy Miene you are in maniac period right now and I just questening my self, when will you go down in a depression mode. Remember that all you write on the internet will stand there. I really don´t hope you will regret what you have written when you go down in depression mode because I can say to you it´s like your brain is on the highway where all the things are going too fast for you. Try to keep the balance in your life. You write earlier you want to take a nap. For God sake…..take that nap and forget the internet. Your body need to rest. Try to listen to your body´s need and fullfill them instead of ignore them. Settle down and relax.

  24. Peggy Miene

    I’ve already been there, I discovered that back in the day when i was an athiest that’s when i was really crazy within myself (but everyone excepted me- another thing i discovered)

    now that i’m a Christian, i feel sane… i don’t have to hide any more and i love the critics because i internalize what they say, if what they say is true then they helped to change me and makes me better. if what they say is false then they help me to understand in what ways they are false which teaches me to argue better..

    i like what you had to say about the whole internet thing; I’ve counted the cost already… i could lose on jobs, i could embarass my family, i could embarass myself… what else… hmmm.. i could alienate a whole bunch of people.. i could ruin my sons future…i could embarass my husband… i could get blacklisted and if this country ever turns out to be like Nazi germany i could go to jail; i can even be killed.

    I’ve thought about all that stuff…but when you’re been or when you are as crazy as i have been and God helps you thru Jesus Christ… how could i possibly hold on to all those things in comparison to what Jesus has done for me… He gave up everything

    and when we read our bibles we can see that God is the one who gives us everything..

    Look at the protesters, they are complaning that they spent all this money on an education and they don’t have anything to show for it.. so, can you see what i mean… what’s the point of holding on to all these things when they can’t give me any security…

    God gives me security… I don’t care about any of the things that i can get in life, not food, or comforts, or sex or clothes or things or music or stuff or even human love, i’ve learned to let that stuff go (i like them of course, don’t misunderstand) but if they are with held from me, my happiness doesn’t come from those things..

    my happiness comes from God… I don’t know how else to put it… everything can be taken away but my relationship with God.. no one can touch that, it’s not here, it’s not in this realm, it’s in heaven…

    remember the verse about treasures in heaven where nothing can make it rot…

    I hope that helps you… answers your question mean; i’ll rest when i die… while there is work i will work…

  25. Peggy Miene

    being bipolar means being depressed and being manic… so i do get depressed and no it doesn’t bother me when i get depressed, not any more… in fact i feel more stable now,,, whether i seem it..

    you seem to know alot about it Atheist you described it well… no, i don’t regret what i write when i get depressed; i used to when i was afraid of how people would perceive me, but i realized as bob has said, no one can really understand another person on the internet but then i said, no one can understand someone unless they share themselves…

    you can’t really understand what Jesus did or what He was all about unless you do what He did… and live as He did.

    That’s why you know what it’s like when a person gets depressed and that’s why i feel like i’ve got a good understanding on bob, to give a psyc profile on him.

    it takes one to know one..

    “No one can know a person’s thoughts except that person’s own spirit, and no one can know God’s thoughts except God’s own Spirit.”1 Corinthians 2:11

  26. Peggy Miene

    Those who are spiritual can evaluate all things, but they themselves cannot be evaluated by others. For,
    “Who can know the Lord’s thoughts?
    Who knows enough to teach Him?”
    But we understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ.
    1 Cor 2:15-16 (NLT)

  27. Peggy Miene

    I’ve been watching Monster’s Inc with my son today, it’s a pretty interesting movie. There’s a lot there.
    I’m seeing it in a whole new way. Thanks to you guys…
    The Monsters are more scared of the kids so they have to behave scarier. The Monsters live off of the fear they get from the kids to power their world.
    The Monsters who work as the scare monsters are also told by their bosses that they have to scare the kids and to be afraid of them and their contamination. So the monsters are also scared of their bosses.
    The bosses keep the scare monsters down by using fear and the scare monsters use fear to get energy/ power/ strength from the kids.
    Later in the movie we discover that in fact, these monsters would get more power from the kids by making them laugh and that there really isn’t anything to be afraid of as far as these kids are concerned.
    I could get deeper into it; like the boss of the energy plant wants to implement a new tactic of extracting energy from the kids. To outright kidnap them and put them in a chair and take their power that way because the kids are becoming more and more desensitize due to the things they watch.
    Interesting concepts.. I wonder if it’s a critic on society.
    I’m applying it to you guys; I like how Bob has this little picture that flashes “completely unprovoked hatemail” that is an outright lie. How is it unprovoked if you’re handing out ‘God is fake leaflets?’
    Looks to me like a monster trying to derive power from people he fears by being even scarier than they are.
    Classic bullied turned to bully.
    I was abused, and I was a bully, my dad would pick on my mom, my brother and dad would pick on me, and I would pick on the kids at school. I couldn’t say sorry to save my life… I remember it well… I hated being confronted and made to apologize even though I knew I was wrong, I just didn’t like the way it felt. Point blank.
    Anyways food for thought.

  28. Peggy Miene

    Oh course you could go deeper than that; into the unseen; how satan works people and how he uses those people to work other people to get them into the fold. to some he gives positions of power, those who go out and extract energy from the people; make them sick… take their hope away.. etc…

    Once they’ve lost hope they can either decide to go to the next step… become a person of position and be one of the ones to get/ make others or they can decide to just be a bottom feeder.

    to the ones who give up (the bottom feeders) they become the slaves… the ones off whom society feeds off of..

    Is this going to be the new world order… the elite on top? Do they have you guys out there working for them? are you the ones who are working to give them these positions of power??

    you might be getting fooled thinking you know everything; thinking you can see what’s ahead of you…

    i don’t know it’s pretty interesting… keep your eyes peeled..

  29. Peggy Miene

    it’s funny you should mention that; i actually like them now… i actually never noticed how nice they were till i reached this old age… but thanks for taking the time to acknowledge me;
    I’m Peggy Miene and i approve this message..

  30. Peggy Miene

    oh and when i was a kid i did dress like a boy, i think i thought that if i were a man, i would have more power; gender issues… anyways, you have to admit, i do smile alot…. whether i look like a man or not,, and i was in the navy, too; i was on the fire team… thanks for being so thorough; you guys really are reading what i write… I’m working on something new, but i’ve been busy with my homework, this evening keep the comments coming…put me thru hell,,,,

  31. Peggy Miene

    actually you guys have inspired me; it doesn’t take much with me,,, i think i’ll just write it now… let me go get my note pad i’ve been jotting down ideas on.. be right back..

  32. Peggy Miene

    To think, last night when I went to bed I was confronted with the fear that I wouldn’t have anything to write today. That I would wake up all dried up and here I am, gushing… now I can’t stop.

    The fact that you wrote to me Amichai falls in line with what I wanted to write about anyways.
    I haven’t read all the hate mail or even a lot of it but I did read one where this guy said something like “get your lackeys to stop e-mailing me” or “something like “call them off” and then bob said something like “I’ll call them off, blah blah blah”
    And that really struck me today as I was walking around with my son just thinking…
    The thought of an ‘agent’ came to me; like in biology, an agent in the body that spreads disease and bob spreading those Jesus dress up magnets.. and how he was working for a satan he doesn’t believe (or he says he doesn’t) exists… and how virtually satan has him working for him and he doesn’t even know it.. This ties into the whole Monsters Inc movie I had mentioned previously.
    That’s how the thought process went.
    And how bob is so into this occupy wall street thing and again it’s such a misguided movement.
    I used to attend socialist meeting in Manhattan’s abc avenues so I know what I’m talking about…this was in the late 90’s and my first husband was a russsian… so I know a lot about this stuff…
    These are some of the stupidest people and they think they are free; most of them are just idealistic kids who haven’t really been tested yet; when they grow up, and if they actually start thinking they might become conservatives..
    You see, my eyes aren’t set on the here and now, on the present.
    I’m looking beyond today..
    You guys are so concerned with what’s happening here that you’re not looking at the end destination.
    Do you think you going to get utopia? Haven’t you studied history?
    It always starts in the same way; this isn’t going to end good…
    And here you are his lackey to defend your messiah. Scoff.
    He’s 42 years old, does he really need you to defend him? I’m just one person and none of you guys have been able to knock me down yet. In fact I shut bob up…
    God is good to me and He always leads my way… anything you can do to me will only help me…

  33. Peggy Miene

    am i the hate mail with the most comments??? have i lasted the longest???

    i once battled this guy for a whole year… it was awesome… I learned so much from that one.. and his friends…

    i love how bob, has like two sides to him, one side seems so nice and sweet and the other; he’s completely disgusting; you hear him on the interviews and he sounds so caring and then there’s a picture of two gay clowns.. and then how he resorts to vengence when he gets talked to by some cops and draws too gay cops or he writes about his old bullies and says about them… wait let me go get the qoute; i’ll be right back…

    here it is:
    “I was shocked but delighted to hear that after high school Tim Carroll lent his body to science so that he could aid the research of male pregnancy.

    Despite many complications that resulted in having his genitalia completely removed Tim is now the first human male to ever bear a child through C-Section! Congratulations Tim!”

    and

    “Shane Sweeny has since been spotted deep within the slums of Denver eating garbage from a street gutter with used plasticware that rats have peed on.

    Good luck you guys!” end of qoute

    does that sound like a good guy… no, but of course you guys don’t want to follow a good guy; i get that…

    you guys want a bada** what ever…

    i also think it’s funny how he has to constantly post how he’s getting called this and he’s getting called that then all his friends come to his rescue to pat him on the back and reassure him..

    and yet “bobby jo” says… oh wait; let me go get the qoute… i’ll be right back…

    yes, it took a while but i found it

    “but it won’t work on a grown man with a strong sense of self. ”

    is that a juxtapostion? i don’t know..

    anyways, i spent so much time looking for that qoute that i lost my train of thougt…

    oh i got it back again..

    how bob isn’t very nice at all… he posts a picture of a girl he’s standing next to at a party and draws the she had bad breath in green…

    come on… this is the model… this is who bobby jo says

    “Never once did I get the vibe that he hated his mother or was a vengeful person who is here on this earth to do harm upon others.”

    well isn’t that harm to others? isn’t that vengful

    the problems is that people don’t know how to judge things.. they are walking blind… people like that will turn on you in a heart beat… Bobby jo, and the rest of you lackeys, get a new leader…

  34. Peggy Miene

    the fact that bob doesn’t have God in his life and the fact that he keeps listening to his friends applauding him while he’s drive off a cliff is going to be his ruin…

    just you wait and see,,, it may happen in a year 20 or 50 years.. but if keeps on straight on this path he’s on; all his ‘friends’ now are going to be laughing at him one day and or shunning him…

    watch..

    There are “friends” who destroy each other, but a real friend sticks closer than a brother. proverbs 18:24

    Wealth makes many “friends”; poverty drives them all away.
    proverbs 19:4

    bob doesn’t sound like a ‘man with a strong sense of self’ at all to me… he needs his ‘friends’ to drive him on.

    he sounds like he has insecurites… and anything good he does is motivated by self intentions anyways..

    and i’m glad this is all here, because when the end does come for him, all this will only be used as evidence against him…

    he was told, he was warned.. and you guys will all be witnessess… so lets keep this parting going ok
    lets make the files nice and thick
    don’t forget, you can go to my fb page type Peggy Miene; that’s me,

  35. Reverend Doktor Jim B. Warnke, FSD (AKA Uncle Satan)

    Margaret, are you aware of the fact that none of us can perceive what is? That we only get a model of what is and that the model is limited, flawed, and subjective?

    Limited because we only see a tiny fraction of the electromagnetic spectrum. Limited because there are sounds both above and below the frequncy range which we can hear. Limited because our sense of touch ends at our skin. Because we can only taste five basic flavors. Our sense of smell is the most expansive sense we’ve got and in that we’ve got nothing on bloodhounds.

    Flawed because we ignore countless bits of the information our sense DO convey. The subconscious mind edits the data with no input from the conscious mind. The subconscious decides what info is worth bothering the conscious mind about and builds a model.

    But the model, aside from being limited and flawed, is subjective. The conscious mind seeks patterns from past impressions to apply to incoming data. This is why you can be certain from two blocks away that you see somebody you know, only to realize you’re dealing with a stranger as you get closer.

    You are within the universe, but you do not experience the universe. What you experience is the model and the model is inside your head.

    In your model, there is a god in your life. In Bob’s model, not only is there no God, but no need for one. In my model, I freely recognize that because the model is not the thing, I cannot truly know if there is a god, dozens of gods, infinite gods, or no god at all. And since I cannot know, it follows that my knowing is not vital to any gods that may or may not exist.

  36. Peggy Miene

    can’t you guys tell and notice that bob, website is one big commercaill i mean that girl up there, might as well be standing next to a car…

    and then the side bars and he’s promoting that documentary (he probably gets some sort of royalty) and his name isn’t even bob smith,,, his name is bob

    Bob, is out at occupy wall street, saying “there are people here begging for money” and then on his side bar he’s begging for donations

    now don’t get me wrong, i understand how artists live, if they are really good, they get alot of gifts from their patrons etc… in other instances they get jobs teaching others for a fee but to shamelessly just ask for money…

    bob is a pawn and you guys are pawns… but you still don’t see it right, you think he’s the coolest right…

    what do you think Nirvana’s “man who sold the world” is about….

    It’s about a the devil… don’t you know that every great musician has a song about meeting the devil on the road and being offeres the world…

    eric clapton= cross roads..

    the doors riders on the strom…

    david bowie= the man who sold the world…

    there are more, but i’d have to go to another website and this will be much longer than i want it to be (i want to go back to sleep)

    listen to the lyrics..

    it’s about satan
    “on no, not me, your face to face with the man who sold the world; oh no we never lost control”

    the song is about a pimp basically a sell out…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fregObNcHC8&ob=av2e

    look at michael moore, he’s made millions doing exposes (like Bob) and saying this coporation is bad and this coporation is bad (and then he invests in them)

    Look, i believe in art and artists

    i believe that artists are the pulse of a nation, they are the eyes and ears of what”s going on, if they don’t sell out if they have a real perspective; something real that they want to say…

    what is bob saying???? think???? he’s selling (by mass production) Jesus Dressup Magnets; THAT’S NOT A STATEMENT, THAT’S AN INFOMERTIAL (that doesn’t look right at all i think i spelled that terribly wrong)
    BUT SOME OF THEM SELL OUT…..

    AND THEN THEY DON’T LIKE IT…

    THEY ARE BEING USED BY SATAN TO SELL YOU OUT!!!! IT ALWAYS BACK FIRES.. PAY ATTTENTION….

    pay attention to bob’s art work, how it progresses, he used to try to do real art, then he gave up and sold out… you guys are blind followers… and you’re calling me blind…. I LOVE THE IRONY HILARIOUS…

    he who laughs last laughs the hardest… you guys think you are soooo smart… keep going then,,, it’s gonna be a rip roaring laugh at your expense… but, you guys are offering aren’t you…

    you’re like laying there on the alter for the slaughter… you guys make it so easy..

  37. Peggy Miene

    Reverend Doktor Jim B. Warnke, FSD (AKA Uncle Satan)

    i love it when people calll me margerate, but you just talking crazy peusdo philo mumbo jombo, that’s why you don’t know what the heck is going on,

    AKA uncle satan, you are a slab of meat being poised for the slaughter…

    don’t be afriad of the man you can kill you… be afraid of the One who can kill you and cast your soul into hell..

    THINK MAN THINK, WHAT’S THE POINT OF HAVING A BRAIN IF YOU DON’T USE IT..

    give it to me, i hate seeing things go to waste,, i’ll use it if you won’t

  38. Peggy Miene

    i’ve come across satan in my life, many times, trying to offer me the world, i’m sure it’s happened to you (reader) at some point.

    maybe you’ve glossed over it in your mind, maybe you’ve talked yourself out of it (that strange encounter; that strange day) and dismissed it, with a whole bunch of excuses; maybe you weren’t AWARE it was happening as it happened…

    i think there are two types of people

    there are those who just always compromise so they don’t ever actually get a visitation of satan, but then there are people who have had actual visitations from satan offering them the world…

    it could be thru a friend, it could happen while on drugs… it could happen thru a series of events that slowly chip away at a person’s moral standard…

    look at the lyrics: (david bowie wrote it btw)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fregObNcHC8&ob=av2e

    We passed upon the stair, we spoke in was and when
    Although I wasn’t there, he said I was his friend
    Which came as a surprise, I spoke into his eyes
    I thought you died alone, a long long time ago

    Oh no, not me
    We never lost control
    You’re face to face
    With The Man Who Sold The World

    I laughed and shook his hand, and made my way back home
    I searched for a foreign land, for years and years I roamed
    I gazed a gazeless stare, we walked a million hills
    I must have died alone, a long long time ago

    Who knows? Not me
    I never lost control
    You’re face to face
    With the Man who Sold the World

    Who knows? not me
    We never lost control
    You’re face to face
    With the Man who Sold the World

  39. Peggy Miene

    satan one great big pimp, a sell out, think about it… put the pieces together people!!!

    is he really getting a bad rep, or are just not paing attention… ??? bob can’t even tell, he’s being used, he’s convinced that satan doesn’t even exist..

    let me ask you:

    if someone says to you “hey i want to use you up and then throw you away”

    do you think you will let that person do that to you??

    no of course not… they will have to TRICK YOU for you to go along with them WOULDN’T THEY???

    They would have to COVER their true intentions from you first RIGHT??? then get you comfortable and then sell you out…

    in the most grossest forms pimps call it ‘turning a girl out’

    did you know that most pimps start out being a girl’s boyfriend???

    the guy doesn’t tell her, “i’m a pimp, i’m going to get you to be a prostitute so that i can live off you”

    duh, she wouldn’t fall for it that way…

    no, the best way to do it is to pretend he really cares about you, get you comfortable, get you hooked on sex and then set up these strange senerios to slowley get you doing it with out you knowing that your selling out..

    he gets you to compromise your morals without you even knowing it…

    That’s what my ex-’boyfriend’ Ray Rivas did to me… i’m an expert on this… except he picked the wrong girl… it back fired on him, he was so angry at the world that he became what he hated… a bully, a pig,, and guess what, i fell in love with him,, by the time he realized it it was too late, and now he’s crying over it, he can’t even face me… too much pride.. he’d either have to admit he was a liar or stupid but he can’t bring himself to do it…

    that was many years ago, at least 18, i was a teenager… he want to live a life of being a leach, he lives off the government now… still… he lives in sqaulor… total nastiness…

    i’m an expert, at this… i can spot them from a mile away… my misfortune has turned into a strength for me… my weakness my shame has turned into a gift because of God see… can’t you see it… are you really that blind???? can’t you hear the truth when it’s being spoken…

    bob is a sell out… he’s using you guys and you guys are using him too… you all think you are sooo free and you don’t see the chains around you like a noose..

    WAKE UP….!!!!

  40. Tommie Tittlemouse

    Just because YOU have a compulsive writing disorder, it doesn’t mean any of us have a compulsive reading disorder. Very few of us actually read your whiny posts — we just scroll right through them, amazed by the sheer volume of the poop you are shitting out all over this site, while we search for comments by saner people. I feel sorry for you and hope you’ll get treatment. But, you’re just making a fool of yourself here and making christians look really bad. Jesus wants you to stop it.

  41. Peggy Miene

    how did kurt cobain die??? he shot himself in the head… did you ever notice how bob draws alot about his dreams??? and some of them are about being suicidal???

    did you ever take the time to look???

    can’t you piece it together…

    (excuse the typos) i think faster than i write…

    the reverend of satan up there is talking all this backward garbage and i’m giving actual evidence, solid evidence and i’m point to this and that, stuff you can look up, not crap concocted from my little feeble imagination like rev satan… that guy is an idiot.. !!!

  42. Peggy Miene

    look at how jim morrison died, and amy winehouse, and all these people the stories are endless, over and over… why do you think it’s them?

    “because they are the music makers and they are the dreamers of the dreams” (artists)
    satan was a great musicain too.. ring any bells..

  43. Peggy Miene

    but tommy i think what is going on is that you are just mad because i’m exposeing you all;
    and i’m making a whole lot of sense, and pointing that there is a God and if you don’t believe in Him you will go to hell… you just want to shut me up so bad….

    people usually do get mad when they get exposed…

    but if you can’t stand to read all my whining why do you know that i have a writing disorder????

    you must be reading all my whining..

    i thought you guys were going to be a lot more; potent..

  44. Peggy Miene

    tommy you brought up a great point…

    thanks for the inspiration…

    here i go:

    Instead, I sometimes think God has put us apostles on display, like prisoners of war at the end of a victor’s parade, condemned to die. We have become a spectacle to the entire world—to people and angels alike.
    Our dedication to Christ makes us look like fools, but you claim to be so wise in Christ! We are weak, but you are so powerful! You are honored, but we are ridiculed. Even now we go hungry and thirsty, and we don’t have enough clothes to keep warm. We are often beaten and have no home. 1 Corinthians 4:9-11 (NLT)

    So tommy, it’s consitent with the Bible, and it’s a good thing you aren’t my judge then and it’s God isn’t it?

    because He actually knows what going on..

    and i know that most of you guys don’t have real lives..and you sit around and read everything on here because Bob posts all the times people write “i read everything in the hate mails” all lot of people read all of it… so nice try.. but NO!!!

  45. Peggy Miene

    there’s no way to make Christians look bad, this isn’t about people… this is about God… and God’s plans always pervail… trust me, if a Christian is too worried to LOOK BAD then he isn’t a christian…

    he’s a poser….

  46. Peggy Miene

    i wish poor bob would get inspired like this then he could make some REAL ART!!!!

    he sould hope to get manic creating something…instead of being so calculated trying to make money off of you stupid unthinking people who defend him…

    most of them are kids, Bobby jo, is 24 years old, by the time i was 24 i had lived so many lives (not literally- i mean phases; learn to read between the lines…)

  47. Peggy Miene

    please you guys read every word of it, tommy your such a liar… people are so carnal they live off this stuff, there are two types of people, the do-ers and the followers and most people are just followers

    any satanist will tell you that they look for dynamic people who can get the job done and make a difference…

    well,,, so does God…

    and tommy, i know your just a little follower reading every single thing,,, because you can’t create anything of your own and you have to live thru other people…

  48. Peggy Miene

    don’t be mad because i’m good at ranting and raving, don’t be mad because … Bob, practcally gave me a whole new forum to just write…

    he’s already shown his true colors… i’ve pointed out so many times how he’s a liar…

    he didn’t post everything i wrote and if he did it with me then he did it with all the other hate mailers…

    he’s the wizard behind the curtain…

    and you guys aren’t even smart enough to pull open the curtain.. you guys still think he’s this great big green (or red) head floating in mid-air…

    magic tricks my dears, magic tricks… slight of hand… but you won’t change, Bob is still the greatest to you right?

    you’ll follow him straight to hell right??? you probably will

    that’s ok, another misunderstanding that you guys have is that you think when a person evangelizes they are tring to get you to convert..

    that’s a misconception…

    if you read your bibles you’ll find that THE MAJORITY of the people don’t change or convert…

    this is a formality…. just to point to the fact that you have been warned…

    You must give them My (God) messages whether they listen or not. But they won’t listen, for they are completely rebellious! Ezekiel 2:7

    But the people of Israel won’t listen to you any more than they listen to Me! For the whole lot of them are hard-hearted and stubborn. Ezekiel 3:7

    didn’t you ever notice that during the flood only 8 people were saved???

    didn’t you notice that in sodom and gamorrah only 3 got saved???

    you guys aren’t paying attention…

    blind, walking blind and stupid…
    it’s called critical thinking..

  49. Peggy Miene

    it’s merely just a formality: you guys already know that there is a God you just suppress the truth, you keep the truth down… you LIE to yourselves..

    But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness.[b] 19 They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them.
    Romans 1:18-19

    Then I heard the Lord asking, “Whom should I send as a messenger to this people? Who will go for us?”

    I (Isaiah) said, “Here I am. Send me.”

    And He (the Lord) said, “Yes, go, and say to this people,

    ‘Listen carefully, but do not understand.
    Watch closely, but learn nothing.’
    10 Harden the hearts of these people.
    Plug their ears and shut their eyes.
    That way, they will not see with their eyes,
    nor hear with their ears,
    nor understand with their hearts
    and turn to me for healing.”

    11 Then I said, “Lord, how long will this go on?”

    And He replied,

    “Until their towns are empty,
    their houses are deserted,
    and the whole country is a wasteland;
    12 until the Lord has sent everyone away,
    and the entire land of Israel lies deserted.
    13 If even a tenth—a remnant—survive,
    it will be invaded again and burned.
    But as a terebinth or oak tree leaves a stump when it is cut down,
    so Israel’s stump will be a holy seed.”
    Isaiah 6:8-13

  50. Peggy Miene

    He (Jesus) replied, “You are permitted to understand the secret of the Kingdom of God. But I use parables for everything I say to outsiders, so that the Scriptures might be fulfilled:

    ‘When they see what I do,
    they will learn nothing.
    When they hear what I say,
    they will not understand.
    Otherwise, they will turn to me
    and be forgiven.”

    13 Then Jesus said to them, “If you can’t understand the meaning of this parable, how will you understand all the other parables?
    Mark 4:11-13

  51. Peggy Miene

    LEARN THE TRUTH – YOU UNTHINKERS.. YOU PAWNS..

    God’s Anger at Sin
    18 But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness.[i] 19 They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. 20 For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.
    21 Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. 22 Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. 23 And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles.

    24 So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. 25 They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. 26 That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.

    28 Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done. 29 Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. 30 They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents. 31 They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy. 32 They know God’s justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.

  52. Peggy Miene

    self destructive… the evidence against you will be insurmountable

    insurmountable [ˌɪnsəˈmaʊntəbəl]
    adj
    incapable of being overcome; insuperable
    insurmountability , insurmountableness n
    insurmountably adv

    keep watching bob and watch what will happen to him… i’m glad he records everything.,.. it will all be on tape… he’s working for his own destruciton.. what an idiot… and he’s laughing about it too no less

  53. Peggy Miene

    look at this commercal:

    http://www.normalbobsmith.com/store/magnets.html

    bob writes:
    “HATE MAIL: Something that hasn’t ceased since the invention of Jesus Dressup.”

    And then he has a flashing icon that states “completely unprovoked hatemail”

    its a gimmick and you guys bought into it hook line and sinker… (yep, note SINKER AS IN TO DRAG YOU DOWN AS IN HIDDEN HOOK ON A WIRE, AS IN YOUR THE STUPID FISH WHO TOOK THE BAIT)

  54. Peggy Miene

    it’s power; people who FEEL POWERLESS in this world sell out for power.

    THAT’S WHAT BEING WEAK IS…

    i thought you guys were going to be more potent, but since you have no substance, no mass, nothing REAL TO YOU then you can’t stand…

    that’s what you get when you compromise… don’t you know anything.. look at how things were for germany, before hitler came, that is a picture..

    a snap shot of the end.. the whole world will be one… this has happened over and over again thru out history only everytime it happens the span gets wider and wider..

    look at the creation of the internet; we are all connected now… and getting more and more connected..

    you think it’s coinciedence??

    Its the story of the tower of babel… baby… the whole world in revolt against God and then God will be the One to prosper because He’s the REAL One in control of the whole thing..

    when hitler showed up, germany was in want of a leader to ‘restore’ them after the economy was so bad. if you watch documentaires about it you always hear the narrator say things like “many gurus appeared during this time and the streets were immoral, everyone willing to sell themsleves.. out.. the nation was degraded people looking for a messiah”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYDCMg4d7ks

  55. Peggy Miene

    what’s the saying that bob likes so much “f*** with us and we multipy” well here i am where are you??

    because actually it’s not true.. not for those who are corrupt…

    how did hitler die.. HE TOTALLY SOLD OUT GERMANY, THEY WERE DESTROYED UTTERLY…

    he shot himself in the head.. be was a recluse who couldn’t show his face… he turned out to be a NOTHING!!!! JUST LIKE HIS FATHER THE DEVIL. you’re only fooling your selves..

    STUDY PEOPLE READ A BOOK EVERY NOW AND THEN; IT’S GOOD FOR YOU..

    this is what is said about satan in the bible when people finally see him: he’s really very weak

    Instead, you will be brought down to the place of the dead,
    down to its lowest depths.
    16 Everyone there will stare at you and ask,
    ‘Can this be the one who shook the earth
    and made the kingdoms of the world tremble?
    17 Is this the one who destroyed the world
    and made it into a wasteland?
    Is this the king who demolished the world’s greatest cities
    and had no mercy on his prisoners?’
    Isaiah 14:15-17

  56. Peggy Miene

    the devil uses your dreams against you;

    he dangles your cravings in front of you like your a donkey and leads you with them, always promising and never fullfilling.. until you are completely hopeless… that’s not how God is,,,

    all my dreams came true and i didn’t have to compromise anything… look at me a writer … God is the One who controls everything…. my strengthe comes from the Lord..!!!!

    you guys are weak thinking you are so strong… corny

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3J91bPrW9A&feature=related

  57. Peggy Miene

    “because people who have no hopes are easy to control and whoever has the control has the power”-the neverending story..

    that’s not how God works, God actually sets us free to be ourselvs in our truest forms…

    I am my most truest self exactly what i was made to be. Are you???

  58. Peggy Miene

    Look beneath the surface so you can judge correctly.” John 7:24

    @ FB PAGE: Click here:
    https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1444761377&ref=tn_nonslim

    People think they are so smart and clever and they are only settng them selves up; God has been telling us over and over again..

    People can never predict when hard times might come. Like fish in a net or birds in a trap, people are caught by sudden tragedy.
    Ecclesiastes 9:12

    But these people set an ambush for themselves; they are trying to get themselves killed. Such is the fate of all who are greedy for money; it robs them of life. Prov 1:18-19 (NLT)

    Their feet run to do evil, and they rush to commit murder. They think only about sinning. Misery and destruction always follow them. Isaiah 59:7

    Terror and traps and snares will be your lot, you people of the earth.
    Isaiah 24:17

    “Among my people are wicked men who lie in wait for victims like a hunter hiding in a blind. They continually set traps to catch people.
    Jeremiah 5:26

    The godliness of good people rescues them; the ambition of treacherous people traps them. Proverbs 11:6

  59. Peggy Miene

    good mike; you’ve been reading and your’e starting to believe.. keep going with that thought demonic possession is very real

    i think bob’s time is coming up soon.. i really do… i feel sorry for him but he thinks he’s on the right track.. you can’t argue with belief as he says..

    “I called you so often, but you wouldn’t come. I reached out to you, but you paid no attention. You ignored my advice and rejected the correction I offered. So I will laugh when you are in trouble! I will mock you when disaster overtakes you—when calamity overtakes you like a storm, when disaster engulfs you like a cyclone, and anguish and distress overwhelm you. “When they cry for help, I will not answer. Though they anxiously search for me, they will not find me. For they hated knowledge and chose not to fear the Lord. They rejected my advice and paid no attention when I corrected them. Therefore, they must eat the bitter fruit of living their own way, choking on their own schemes.
    For simpletons turn away from me—to death.
    Fools are destroyed by their own complacency.
    But all who listen to me will live in peace, untroubled by fear of harm.” Prov 1:24-33 (NLT)

  60. Peggy Miene

    mike darling, you just gave me a good seg-way; i didn’t know we were tag team..

    did you know the Jesus was also called a demon?

    Jesus and the Prince of Demons
    22 Then a demon-possessed man, who was blind and couldn’t speak, was brought to Jesus. He healed the man so that he could both speak and see. 23 The crowd was amazed and asked, “Could it be that Jesus is the Son of David, the Messiah?”
    24 But when the Pharisees heard about the miracle, they said, “No wonder he can cast out demons. He gets his power from Satan,[d] the prince of demons.”

    25 Jesus knew their thoughts and replied, “Any kingdom divided by civil war is doomed. A town or family splintered by feuding will fall apart. 26 And if Satan is casting out Satan, he is divided and fighting against himself. His own kingdom will not survive. 27 And if I am empowered by Satan, what about your own exorcists? They cast out demons, too, so they will condemn you for what you have said. 28 But if I am casting out demons by the Spirit of God, then the Kingdom of God has arrived among you. 29 For who is powerful enough to enter the house of a strong man like Satan and plunder his goods? Only someone even stronger—someone who could tie him up and then plunder his house.

    30 “Anyone who isn’t with me opposes me, and anyone who isn’t working with me is actually working against me.

    31 “So I tell you, every sin and blasphemy can be forgiven—except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which will never be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks against the Son of Man can be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, either in this world or in the world to come.

    33 “A tree is identified by its fruit. If a tree is good, its fruit will be good. If a tree is bad, its fruit will be bad. 34 You brood of snakes! How could evil men like you speak what is good and right? For whatever is in your heart determines what you say. 35 A good person produces good things from the treasury of a good heart, and an evil person produces evil things from the treasury of an evil heart. 36 And I tell you this, you must give an account on judgment day for every idle word you speak. 37 The words you say will either acquit you or condemn you.”
    matthew 12:22-37

  61. Peggy Miene

    A good person produces good things from the treasury of a good heart, and an evil person produces evil things from the treasury of an evil heart. 36 And I tell you this, you must give an account on judgment day for every idle word you speak. 37 The words you say will either acquit you or condemn you.”

  62. Peggy Miene

    Shelly,
    I’m sorry you are so sadly mistaken, (but I’m glad that you are giving evidence that you are reading what i write at least you showed up; everyone else is too scared- so thanks)

    but if you ever do decide to read the bible and take off your skeptic’s blinders off you will see that a major portion of what is going on here (in the world, in the Bible) has to do with the law…
    with evidence,

    i’m preaching here right?

    as you put it “babbling idiots” right, you my dear are confirming exactly what that bible says, you are living it out and you don’t even recognize it..

    Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know Him through human wisdom, He has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe. 1 Corinthians 1:21

    a lot of this has to do with law (did i repeat myself) all this evidence is going to be used against you at ‘judgment’ if you continue to deny Him…

    since you don’t believe in God (i’m assuming you don’t since you’re opposing me) then the law lives on you, then you are subject to the law, then the law can be used against you; more specifically the ten commandments.

    It’s not humanly possible to keep the law so it’s obvious that you’ve already broken them..

    isn’t it true that a murderer has to go to jail? Even if he dodged the law for 50 years but was then caught and solid evidence was there to use against him don’t we still as a human race hold that man accountable and send him to jail for something he did 50 years ago even if there is proof that he had been a model citizen ever since. Yes he still goes to jail. He still has to pay his debt to society.
    so even our human justice system points us to an example that there will be a time when we will all have to face and Eternal God because its obvious to us that our souls are eternal.. they go on..
    (That’s a whole other subject)

    (is this still sounding like conspiracy theory nonsense- i’ll keep going then)

    the same with the ten commandments..

    it seems like a nasty trick God has played on us right? He sets up these rules knowing we can never live up to them…

    Actually the purpose of the ten commandments isn’t so that we live up to them. It’s not humanly possible to be perfect all the time… because we are imperfect.
    The purpose of them is to show how we can’t live up to them, they are like a mirror..

    when you wake up in the mourning you don’t go into the bathroom and wash your face with the mirror do you?

    no, the mirror SHOWS YOU HOW DIRTY YOUR FACE IS.

    you USE the mirror to show you were the dirt is,

    you USE the WATER to wash your face.

    the mirror tells you to go to the water, it tells you that you need to wash your face..
    Where does a person go to get cleansed; they go to Jesus.
    This stuff has to do with Leviticus and it’s pretty complicated but Jesus’ blood atones for us. It covers us in front of God so that we can face Him. If you accept Jesus to be your Savoir the law DOES NOT rest on you, therefore God’s wrath (because He hates sin; sin is inconsistent with His love)does not rest on you.
    Is there a conflict, then, between God’s law and God’s promises? Absolutely not! If the law could give us new life, we could be made right with God by obeying it. Galatians 3:21
    Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature to His cross and crucified them there. Galatians 5:24 (NLT)

    Because of Jesus we can approach God Himself.
    By his death, Jesus opened a new and life-giving way through the curtain into the Most Holy Place. Hebrews 10:20
    Then there was a curtain, and behind the curtain was the second room called the Most Holy Place. Hebrews 9:3
    This hope is a strong and trustworthy anchor for our souls. It leads us through the curtain into God’s inner sanctuary. Hebrews 6:19

    The bible is awesome, I learn so much about it… I used to be this little person in a big world, reading the bible it’s as if the world has shrunk. I don’t know everything but I know a lot about the world and we people do the things that they do and why things are the way that they are…

    I like to invert the NIN lyrics. “I was down in it; now I’m up above it”
    If you think that’s conspiracy theory stuff than everything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law..
    I strongly advise that you get representation..

    there might be typos…

  63. Peggy Miene

    oh i should add this, God sees hate as murder, if you’ve ever hated someone then you’ve murdered them, the only thing that kept you from killing that person is that you didn’t have the opprotunity..

    if you ever looked at someone with lust than you’ve already commited the act, but for the fact that you didn’t have the actuall opprotunity..

    For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, all sexual immorality, theft, lying, and slander. Matthew 15:19

    everything originates in the heart, and God sees our thought life… if we just admit the truth He will forgive us and help us do better, He has the power to cleanse us and keep us fromt doing the things we know we hate doing and things that we know are wrong.. unless you think it’s ok to hurt other people..

    Anyone who hates another brother or sister is really a murderer at heart. And you know that murderers don’t have eternal life within them. 1 John 3:15

    But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart. Matthew 5:28

    Anyone who hates Me (Jesus) also hates My Father. John 15:23

    the bible, so much good stuff in it.. i love it so much… it’s like a well, you can keep draw out more and more and more it always goes deeper and what it produces is awesomeness

  64. Peggy Miene

    “full of myself” i hear that a lot, i’m confident.. thanks,, i’m been told that since i was a kid, i used to say, “It’s not that i’m conceited, it’s just that i know my strengths”, to pretend to be something i’m not (false modesty) is just another way to lie, i don’t want to be a liar, but thanks for noticing,, (i’m a bed speller) see, that’s one of my faults… but as an outside perspective on me, you just gave me reason to be more confident, you notice my confidence.. what’s wrong with being confident, isn’t that what people want, confidence…

    one mintue you guys are telling me i’m poor the next that i’m confident… i guess that means i’m dynamic.,. or as bob says ASTONISHING.. like thunder or BOMBASTIC ( i like that one the best- looked up the etymology of the word) BOMBASTIC; pompous…

    but i do have a reason to be BOMBASTIC

    I have God and He has saved my life

    As for me, may I never boast about anything except the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. Because of that cross, my interest in this world has been crucified, and the world’s interest in me has also died. Galatians 6:14

    As the Scriptures say, “If you want to boast, boast only about the Lord.”2 Corinthians 10:17

  65. Peggy Miene

    no matter what you give to the people they are never satisifed:

    “To what can I compare this generation? It is like children playing a game in the public square. They complain to their friends,

    17 ‘We played wedding songs,

    and you didn’t dance,
    so we played funeral songs,
    and you didn’t mourn.’
    Matthew 11:16-17

    a little dancing music (this is how i feel today very ecstatic.. manic)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCTNczcjLj0

    it’s a good thing it will be God who will judge me and not tricky corrupt man..

    The smooth tricks of scoundrels are evil. They plot crooked schemes. They lie to convict the poor, even when the cause of the poor is just. Isaiah 32:7

    “Watching for their opportunity, the leaders sent spies pretending to be honest men. They tried to get Jesus to say something that could be reported to the Roman governor so he (the governor) would arrest Jesus. 21 “Teacher,” they said, “we know that you speak and teach what is right and are not influenced by what others think. You teach the way of God truthfully. 22 Now tell us—is it right for us to pay taxes to Caesar or not?”
    23 He saw through their trickery and said, 24 “Show Me a Roman coin.[b] Whose picture and title are stamped on it?”

    “Caesar’s,” they replied.

    25 “Well then,” He said, “give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and give to God what belongs to God.”

    26 So they failed to trap Him by what He said in front of the people. Instead, they were amazed by His answer, and they became silent.” Luke 20:20-26

    “Don’t be afraid of those who want to kill your body; they cannot touch your soul. Fear only God, who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28

  66. Peggy Miene

    I’ve asked this before, I’ll ask it again. Talk amongst yourselves, or reply, what ever you want.

    What motive would I have in making you a Christian?

    I haven’t asked you for any money.

    I haven’t suggested that you go to any specific church.

    So what could my motive possible be?

    Hypothetically speaking if you did miraculously become a Christian and we never corresponded again I wouldn’t gain anything from you.

    As far as ethics goes people do everything for a reason..

    What’s mine?

    I know that there are charlatans out there, but the bible already warns us that there would be charlatans, there have always been chralatans out there… there purpose is to distort the way, to mucky up the waters..

    Read:
    And because of these teachers, the way of truth will be slandered.3 In their greed they will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction will not be delayed.
    2 Peter 2:2-3 (NLT)

    these are things you should think about if you want to be intellectually honest… you have to weight all the evidence…

    these are things you should think about if you want to make the right decision.

  67. Peggy Miene

    Look this is exactly what i’ve been saying.. people who feel weak and powerless resort to using force or tricky to gain a sense of power; why not just go to God, He gives real power for those who really follow Him, THERE WILL BE NO UTOPIA AND GETTING RID OF GOD WILL MAKE IT WORSE..

    “You created power where there was none,” the famed agitator said. (bill ayers)

    http://www.chicagoreader.com/Bleader/archives/2011/10/20/palling-around-with-occupiers

  68. Peggy Miene

    one of the best songs eva!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q6skxRLnsI&feature=autoplay&list=WL98D2F45094C9215F&lf=BFp&playnext=5

    translation: it’s a beautiful thing to be on the side of God…

    Very biased and subjective. I suggest this version instead, the transcription is in italics below the english:

    Savior Mine
    Blessed God
    Eternal One
    Mysterious One, Death, Holy One go before us.
    Hosana Meus
    Fortuna Deus
    Aeterna Teus
    Mystre, Morte, Sancte Pior

    Blessed Savior God
    Legion as the hairs of my head
    Blessed, blessed indeed
    Are the warriors of truth
    Fortuna hosana deus
    Legionus ab comae
    Fortune fortuna equis
    Ad pugnatoris in veritae

    Savior Mine
    Blessed God,
    Protected by your cause
    Of holiness.Hossana meus
    Fortuna dues
    Protego causa
    In sanctus

    Eternal in the past
    Enduring always (i.e. God that was and is and will be)
    Coryphaeus (a Greek drama term meaning the leader of the choir)
    Regal King of all
    Aeternus praetor
    Firmitas semper
    Coryphaeus
    Rex Regis univers

    For your whole self, savior
    Protecting your holy cause
    Bright Father
    Celebrate resurrection
    (Pro se solis hosanna
    Protego sanctus causa
    Padre illuminata
    Gloria in resurrectem)

    For your whole self, savior
    Protecting your holy cause
    Bright Father
    Celebrate that day
    (Pro se solis hosanna
    Protego sanctus causa
    Padre illuminata
    Gloria in unum diem)

    The land shadowed
    The Earth evil,
    Those who sow seeds of his travel
    Why be guilty?
    Terra tenebrae
    Telluris malus,
    Qui sere pere
    Cur reatus.

    Our Father ate the meat
    Of our Lord,
    Bright Father
    Regal King of all.
    Genitor edo
    In ex domino,
    Patris illuminata
    Rex Regis universe.

    For your whole self, savior
    Protecting your holy cause
    Bright Father
    Celebrate resurrection
    (Pro se solis hosanna
    Protego sanctus causa
    Padre illuminata
    Gloria in resurrectem)

    For your whole self, savior
    Protecting your holy cause
    Bright Father
    Celebrate that day
    (Pro se solis hosanna
    Protego sanctus causa
    Padre illuminata
    Gloria in unum diem)

    Tearful, Tearful,
    Being away from our Lord
    Lacrimosa, lacrimosa
    In ex dominum

    Some of the lyrics aren’t latin, they’re Greek. Also the most common transcription is a bit faulty.

    Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/English_lyrics_to_Preliator_by_Globus#ixzz1dF0FliVm

  69. Fidel

    “What motive would I have in making you a Christian?”
    Validation for your obsessive, compulsive, tireless, tiresome, all-consuming ranting and raving.
    Peggy. Please. You don’t convince thinking people that you’re right by talking louder and longer than anyone else. You convince thinking people that you’re right by arguing your case more clearly and convincingly than anyone else.
    My eyes can’t help but glaze over as I try to follow your meandering, disjointed streams of semi-consciousness.

  70. Peggy Miene

    and how would i cash in on validation? what good is your validation to me?

    preching has a two fold affect, it pushes away those who aren’t down with God and it draws close those who are..

    what do you think is meant when Jesus says:

    But everyone who denies me here on earth, I will also deny before my Father in heaven.
    34 “Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace to the earth! I came not to bring peace, but a sword.

    35 ‘I have come to set a man against his father,

    a daughter against her mother,
    and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.

    Matthew 10:33-35

    my purpose isn’t to convince those who aren’t meant to be convinced… my purpose is to convince those who are… if your not one of them, then you’re not one of them.

    If you cling to your life, you will lose it; but if you give up your life for me, you will find it.
    Matt 10:39 (NLT)

  71. Peggy Miene

    actually, thanks to God He gave me the answer, validation… like ego… if you validate me then i get ego..

    well no one here has validated me yet and or at all.. but i still have my ego, which is why someone said i’m full of myself.. so if i’m not getting my ego, validation, self esteem from you guys then there must be some other place i’m getting it..

    my strength and knowledge come from the Lord… He validates me… when i went to bed last night after i had shut down my computer and prayed and thought about things He validated me… my validation comes from Him.. like i said, whether you understand me or perceive me doesn’t matter to me because i believe in God,

    that stuff only matter to people who get their ‘validation’ from people… no person needs to cheer me on, to let me know i’m going the right way or the wrong way… I hope that makes sense… i’m in the middle of putting my groceries away…

  72. Peggy Miene

    I’m working on something new, in other words, i’m working on more yadda, yadda, yadda, but i’m gonna watch ‘vietnam on HD’ on the history channel right now (it’s pretty good you should watch it too) I’m gonna get nice and comfy and warm in bed… getting ready for thanksgivng too… exciting, can’t wait for the feast…two weeks away, anyways; see ya’ll tomorrow

  73. Mr. Slink

    Hey, Bob, here’s a suggestion:

    Can you provide a suitable icon to mark Peggy/Joy’s dumps on this thread (I can hardly call such boooooooooooring shitloads “posts”)? Any image that is suitably fat, ugly, and ridiculous will do. The idea is to make her shit easily recognizable so we can scroll right through it without having to read her neurotic bipolar-induced ramblings but can easily spot comments by real people. Thanks.

  74. Peggy Miene

    Mr. Slink, you are very perceptive, those are the ways to hurt me the most, call my fat (I used to be a bulimic and an anorexic), ugly and I’m Dominican so don’t forget to call me a nigger spic too; I have dread locks to so be sure to add snakes coming out of my head. Hmm what else; make me foam at the mouth too keeled over with a pen and a pad. That sounds good, of course I don’t draw.

    Would you say that you adhere to the doctrine that says: “we seek to bring about a youth that has closed its heart to pity”
    Hitler said that.

    “Their talk is foul, like the stench from an open grave. Their tongues are filled with lies.” “Snake venom drips from their lips.” “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.” “They rush to commit murder. Destruction and misery always follow them. They don’t know where to find peace.” “They have no fear of God at all.” Romans 3:13-18 (NLT)

    But anyways back to my bipolar induced rhetoric that you keep reading.

    This one was inspired by Fidel; so many sparks came from that one… it was good.. God uses all evil for His good…

    Fidel’s post reminded me of when Jesus asked His listeners why they couldn’t understand Him and what He was saying. He answered Himself and said:

    Why can’t you understand what I Am saying? It’s because you can’t even hearMe! For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies. So when I tell the truth, you just naturally don’t believe Me! Which of you can truthfully accuse Me of sin? And since I am telling you the truth, why don’t you believe Me? Anyone who belongs to God listens gladly to the words of God. But you don’t listen because you don’t belong to God.” John 8:43-47 (NLT)

    Then I thought about how Bob, has those tattoos and how he gives homage to the devil, then my thoughts went to how so many people lately are blatantly giving homage to satan. There’s this writer named Saul Alinsky who wrote a book called ‘Rules for Radicals’ and he dedicated it to Lucifer.

    The dedication reads like this:
    ““Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history… the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom — Lucifer.”

    then i remembered how Obama credits that book as one of the books that helped him in his community organizing days.

    For those of you who have read your bibles (even if it has been to mock them) did you ever notice how in the story of the “Tower of Babel” the whole known world was involved in it; what I mean is that the whole world was involved in building the tower that would prove that they didn’t need God. That they were as good as God; and it’s happening again. All those stories are precursors; they are like pictures showing us what has already happened and what will happen.

    In the story, God showed that He was the One ultimately in charge and He scattered them all; gave them different languages etc.

    What about now? Pretty soon the whole world will be united as one. The internet connects us, in Europe the euro connects them.

    There are Occupy protesters all over the world complaining about money. Its people’s bellies that rule them and this is what satan uses against them and it will backfire on them.

    Remember, Judas didn’t realize he was doing something wrong while he was doing it. Hitler didn’t know he was doing something wrong when he was doing it. He thought he was right… and how did they both die? They both killed themselves. They both ran in shame.

    Anton LaVeys’ own daughter was very up front about what was going on.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXhyIh733jQ

    Anyways I thank Fidel because he was so useful; he may not have given me validation but he gave God a chance to give it to me.

    My proof comes from every time God comes to help me out and hold me up, every time I see Him work in my life; every time He works evil into good… which makes me love Him more and believe in Him more.

    So make fun of all of me, take it all; I give it to you, you can have it. Go to the extreme. I want to see what else God can do. If you guys already chose satan and hell, then I guess it really doesn’t matter.

    When a potter makes jars out of clay, doesn’t he have a right to use the same lump of clay to make one jar for decoration and another to throw garbage into? In the same way, even though God has the right to show His anger and His power, He is very patient with those on whom His anger falls, who were made for destruction. He does this to make the riches of His glory shine even brighter on those to whom He shows mercy, who were prepared in advance for glory. Romans 9:21-23 (NLT)

    Don’t you people see? You’re only an example for us who believe in Him. In the end you’re meant for destruction anyways and if you destroy us we go to heaven. You are actually working against yourself and you don’t even recognize it and you work in our favor at the same time.

  75. Peggy Miene

    i always forget some awesome line or concept…

    the point is; call me what you want and do to me what you want; ultimatly you have no power over me. hmm… i think i can say it better…

    you have no power over the truest part of me, my spirit and my self esteem doesn’t originate with you… so go far with it.. push it to the limit..

    once you’ve been to the edge, like i have, there’s nothing left to lose… i’ve tested it all.. and once you find the truth the truth really does set you free…

  76. Peggy Miene

    i’m in the middle of making a beautiful pork roast for when my husband gets home from work.. the house smells wonderful; let me get back to my meaningless life…(snickers to self).

  77. Peggy Miene

    Why didn’t you arrest Me (Jesus) in the Temple? I was there every day. But this is your moment, the time when the power of darkness reigns.”
    Luke 22:53 (NLT)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYlMRP7e6as

    And I (Jesus) will rescue you from both your own people and the Gentiles. Yes, I Am sending you to the Gentiles to open their eyes, so they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God. Then they will receive forgiveness for their sins and be given a place among God’s people, who are set apart by faith in Me.’
    Acts 26:17-18 (NLT)

    “This child (Jesus) is destined to cause many in Israel to fall, but He will be a joy to many others. He has been sent as a sign from God, but many will oppose Him. As a result, the deepest thoughts of many hearts will be revealed. And a sword will pierce your very soul.”
    Luke 2:34-35 (NLT)

    love hurts like a knife:

    For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God. Everything is naked and exposed before His eyes, and He is the One to whom we are accountable.
    Heb 4:12-13 (NLT)

    He made my words of judgment as sharp as a sword.
    He has hidden me in the shadow of His hand.
    I am like a sharp arrow in His quiver.
    Isaiah 49:2 (NLT)

  78. Reverend Doktor Jim B. Warnke, FSD (AKA Uncle Satan)

    Oh, no! Margaret called me am idiot! Whatever shall I do?

    Yo, Mags, as much as you want to deride the insights I provided you as “mumbo jombo,” can you do anything to actually disprove them? Can you prove that your experience of events takes place anywhere other than inside your skull?

    Good luck.

    And remember, Jesus loves you… Granted, he’s not exactly reknowned very being picky.

  79. Reverend Doktor Jim B. Warnke, FSD (AKA Uncle Satan)

    “the bible is soo good it’s bad,,, that’s where the real power is… and it’s a clean power,,,,”
    —Peggy Miene

    Surely you’re not suggesting that burning bibles doesn’t generate smoke…

  80. Peggy Miene

    mr. satan that was so long ago, i’m on new stuff now, try to keep up, we are on “dead souls are shouting”

    but i do love to debate and i can always use new materail , just stay current OK!!! (oh,. disregard the typos,,, I’m too happy to care about them, it was a good day…. ) kisses

  81. Petter Häggholm

    This is actually really sad. On page 1 of the hate mail files she was funny, but by page 2 she was starting to look tragic, and the comments? This woman needs help, and I hope someone will come around to provide it.

    There’s no shame in seeking help—real help, human health, medical help, psychiatric help. Mental illness is no more shameful than physical illness; you are no more at fault for bipolar disorder, depression, or schizophreia than you are for Gillain-Barré, lupus, or MRSA. Taking medication for a disease in your brain is no more shameful than taking medication for a disease in your liver.

  82. Peggy Miene

    i just saw the lead singer of maroon 5 advertising a prescription for having ADHD.. go figure.. . I don’t really like his music much… but i guess it’s fitting for the conversation…

    Petter Haggholm, are you Dutch, your name looks Dutch, my dad is from the Netherland Antillies, Curacaco my maiden name is Koeiman, it means cowboy… I’m a Pearl (Peggy {Mags}/ rare, hard to find and often imitated) Cowboy. (an animal herder) in biblical times people were named for what they would be, and you know that in Native American cultures people were named for their character traits…

    I noticed your a writer, wow, you sound really smart… but according to your blog you haven’t written since 2010…

    i wouldn’t mind getting challenged by you, lets go, bring a topic,… something with meat and potatoes… lets see what happens, i’m not afraid of looking stupid…. as long as i learn something, and i’m a house wife, no degree, i was in the navy; so this should be easy for you… and it will give me practice..

    if not I’ll just continue the way i have been.,

    todays verse is.

    All this the Lord made me understand by the writing by His hand upon me, all the work to be done according to the plan.

    20Also David told Solomon his son, Be strong and courageous, and do it. Fear not, be not dismayed, for the Lord God, my God, is with you. He will not fail or forsake you until you have finished all the work for the service of the house of the Lord.

    21And see, [you have] the divisions of the priests and Levites for all the service of God’s house, and with you in all the kinds of work will be every willing, skillful man for any kind of service. Also the officers and all the people will be wholly at your command.
    1 Chronicles 28: 19-21

  83. Peggy Miene

    Oh, it’s swedish, i’m not as impressed anymore.. swedish people are boring… at least to me.. they’re so like… white… like the white white. I like abba though, a lot.. almost to a fault, the punkers used to make fun of me for it,

    i believe disco and punk can co-exist though?

    anyways, have you been keeping up with that swedish bomber guy…i’m not talking about that Jihad guy, i’m talking about that blond guy, the one who opened fire on these teens camping

  84. Petter Häggholm

    I’m sorry to hear that you’re racist, though puzzled by your inability to find my blog.

    The “blond guy…who opened fire on these teens camping”, Breivik, was in fact Norwegian; a Christian right-wing extremist, as it happens.

  85. Peggy Miene

    yep, Breivik that’s the guy, thanks for correcting me, on where he’s from… he himself says that he’s not relgious though, he thinks religion is a crutch for weak people those are his own words about himself below is the qoute and then the source.

    He said of himself:
    His manifesto states “I’m not going to pretend I’m a very religious person, as that would be a lie”, calls religion a crutch and a source for drawing mental strength, and says “I’ve always been very pragmatic and influenced by my secular surroundings and environment”; regarding the term “cultural Christian” which he says means preserving European culture, he notes “It is enough that you are a Christian-agnostic or a Christian-atheist (an atheist who wants to preserve at least the basics of the European Christian cultural legacy…)”

    http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/186020/20110725/anders-breivik-manifesto-shooter-bomber-downplayed-religion-secular-influence-key.htm

    yes, i am a racist, we all are to some extent i never liked mexican men because they check out women the most, but i must say that Dutchmen (when in the carribean) think that black girls will do anything for money and that we hold some kind of secret sexual knowledge. They look at us as if we were a hamburger…. a white, red faced, sweaty, bloated, drunk, Dutchmen on the dance floor hungry like the wolf… not a pretty picture…i’ve seen it…

  86. Reverend Doktor Jim B. Warnke, FSD (AKA Uncle Satan)

    So that would be no, you cannot prove that your experiences exist anywhere but inside your head? Got it.

    “Dead souls are shouting?” Is it Emo poetry hour?

  87. Peggy Miene

    Petter, it’s funny this subject should come up today, because it just so happens that last nite i listened to this debate on youtube, and one of the options to the side was titled “The Christian Atheist: Session 4 – I Believe in God, But I Don’t Talk About It”

    I just read the title of it not thinking anything about it til now… being that this is what Breivik categorizes himself as; he says he a pragmatist so he looks for results, not to follow God.

    Even Jesus the founder of Christianity wasn’t very successful, at his death most of His followers abandoned Him and when He resurrected a theologian came to the idea that He really only had 120 followers. So my point is that Jesus Himself wasn’t a pragmatist
    And then you have the prophets.. if you read the story of Elijah, against the false prophets at Mt. Carmel, he was successful but he was the one who ended up run to escape Queen Jezebel.
    My point in bringing these examples up it to show that, those who follow God aren’t pragmatic; they follow God even though what they see seems to contradict what God told them to do.
    That’s why we follow by faith not by sight.
    Anyways on to a new angle:
    so i just looked up the term Christian atheist; i didn’t know there was such a thing… but apparently there is.. but at first glance i guess this would be the next step from, Christian Liberalism; so to say he was a fundamentalist Christian is wrong.
    And actually, Christian Liberals aren’t really Christians either..
    Jesus says that there will be those who say “Lord, Lord” but that won’t enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

    Those are people who have never known Jesus; He will say,. I never knew you…

    That’s what that means. Which is what Breivik says of himself, he says
    “If you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God then you are a religious Christian. Myself and many more like me do not necessarily have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God.”

    @ Mr. satan, this is the best proof that my experiences happen outside of myself.
    How God led me to that title of “Christian Atheist” before this conversation even came up between Petter and I, so that I would have a reference to go to; something to look up.

    And watching the Maroon 5 commercial before I knew that there was someone making a reference to me and medication;
    In fact I was watching tv and saw the commercial and then I logged on to write about it and saw how Petter was making fun of me and medication; that’s the order in which it went.

    I saw the commercial and was inspired to log on and write and then i saw why…

    Things like that happen a lot.

    Of course you won’t believe any of this stuff because you don’t want to. I’m sure many things are wasted on you… I bet many good things happen to you but you don’t notice it. That’s why destruction follows you around.

  88. Petter Häggholm

    My remarks about medication were not mockery. The disjointed, erratic, and compulsive meanderings of your posts really does make me think that you could benefit from psychiatric help. I do not see any shame or cause for mockery in that.

  89. Peggy Miene

    you’re entitled to your opinions, but is there anything else to add?

    anything about Breivik,

    any new topics, anything with meat and potatoes? with subtance? a challenge? nothing?

    I thought you guys were going to be; i don’t know… smarter…i was actually a little intimidated by you Petter, but nothing? that’s it?

    It’s a good thing I’m crazy, then i can just entertain myself and keep going.

  90. Petter Häggholm

    Add to what? You have presented a ragged wall of text; a meandering mass of verbiage with no apparent structure or aim. If you expect people to discuss points with you, you should be sure to make or address points you wish to discuss, and avoid ranting aimlessly about multiple tangents all at once. No one is going to have time, energy, or motivation to attempt to read all twenty or so of your missives, deconstruct and reassemble them into cogent points, and respond to them. As it is, you look like a BPD patient who needs lithium to control a manic phase. No shame in that, but internet commenters attempting to keep up with your manic typing aren’t going to be of any help or use.

  91. Peggy Miene

    Petter, I’ll let you in on my little secret; (which isn’t much of a secret at all)
    It doesn’t matter if someone responses to me or not… it all works in my favor.
    If someone reacts, then I respond and put out information based on what they said.
    If no one reacts, then I get to say whatever I want, whenever I want, however I want…
    If I get blocked then I get to go somewhere else..
    Since I’m crazy, it doesn’t matter what I say to those who don’t understand.
    If I make sense to someone then what I say applies to them and its purposeful (not wasted)… so there’s no way to lose…
    I guess my question to you is, if you think I’m crazy then why are you reacting to me?
    What does that say about you; being the one who is sane?
    I could understand two sane people talking
    I could understand two crazy people talking.
    I could understand a crazy person talking to a sane person.
    But why would a sane person talk to a crazy person?
    How can you reason with an unreasonable person?
    You say I’m crazy therefore unreasonable, then what is your point in talking to me/ reacting to me?
    My point in talking to you makes sense. I’m just crazy.
    But why are you talking to me?

  92. Peggy Miene

    i must make a little sense to you? Maybe… just maybe?

    see, if i were really crazy; you would just disregard me; why pay attention to the crazy ramblings of a crazy person?

    but the fact that you are reading my crazy rants must bring you something???

    don’t people say things like “i’m not going to even justify that with an answer”

    well you’re justifying me Petter, I dare say, you are validating me.

    Maybe perhaps I discovered a new layer into what Fidel brought up;

    I know God validates me and now i know that even when people don’t agree with me they validate me..

    good stuff, this experiment is going pretty well..i’ve learned alot so far… God uses everything… He wastes nothing…

  93. Reverend Doktor Jim B. Warnke, FSD (AKA Uncle Satan)

    Mags, Mags, Mags, do you really not see the distinction? EVENTS occur (or don’t) outside of your head. Your EXPERIENCE of events occurs inside your head. And your experience is yours and yours alone. Or do you imagine that event of a rainbow is the same to you as it is to a person blind since birth? The experience of the event is not the event experienced.

  94. Peggy Miene

    Mr. Satan your too smart for me, i can’t even understand what you’re saying, that’s how smart you are…it all sounds like mumbo jumbo, yoga, trippy talk to me; and that’s way too deep for me..

    see I’m crazy, i’m drooling at the mouth… i make no sense at all.. i point to things that a person could look up if they wanted too. I point to things that you can look up and compare to other things. You have to talk to me from that level; you know CRAZY.

    the stuff i present is stuff that you could set a glass of water on, that’s how stable it is.

    you shouldn’t waste your time on me, you should help someone else to see the light. i deal with made up conspiracy theories that have no bases in realtiy at all.. except for the fact that you can look it up if you want to..

    You’re stuff is pure fact…

    “The experience of the event is not the event experienced.” that’s just genius,,, you should qoute that… i haven’t smoked a joint in like years.. i’m so far removed from that thought… no, no,, Mr. satan… don’t waste you time on me.. please save someone else…

    Petter, do you see what i’m talking about now???

    I mean it’s as if Mr. satan volunteered to be a living example.. a living real time example… and if you don’t understand, i know someone out there is understanding perfectly… so keep it coming this is fun..

  95. Peggy Miene

    I thought about what mr. satan wrote and it gave me a great idea.
    His idea actually works in my favor though.
    It breaks down at the point where there are two people with completely different capacities to experience the same event.
    One person is blind while the other can see.

    Someone would have to tell the blind person that there was an EVENT happening such as in the example of a rainbow; otherwise the blind person wouldn’t know there was a rainbow.

    Which led me to think of a better example where two people do have the same capacity from the start; which led me to think of two soldiers at the same battle on the same hill. ( i could get deeper into that but it would be distracting- i’m going for my main point)

    And then that thought led me to think of a story in the Bible of something really similar to both Mr. satan’s example and mine.

    Here’s part of the story; the point is that everyone on the hill were there for the EVENT, but everybody there had a different experience because they had different capacities. One person was given the privilege of seeing while the others didn’t so their experiences were different:

    On April 23, as I was standing on the bank of the great Tigris River, I looked up and saw a man dressed in linen clothing, with a belt of pure gold around his waist. His body looked like a precious gem. His face flashed like lightning, and his eyes flamed like torches. His arms and feet shone like polished bronze, and his voice roared like a vast multitude of people. Only I, Daniel, saw this vision. The men with me saw nothing, but they were suddenly terrified and ran away to hide. So I was left there all alone to see this amazing vision Dan 10:4-8 (NLT)

    You don’t have the capacity to see God the way I do because you don’t have His Spirit.

    As the Scriptures say,
    “God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear.” Romans 11:8 (NLT)

    Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit. John 3:5 (NLT)

    You are the blind person, who can’t see the rainbow. To those who can understand “I’M TELLING YOU THERE IS A RAINBOW, IT HAS MANY BEAUTIFUL COLORS”

    thanks Mr. Satan; that’s what i call tag team..

  96. Atheist Named Jeff

    and one of the options to the side was titled “The Christian Atheist: Session 4 – I Believe in God, But I Don’t Talk About It”…And actually, Christian Liberals aren’t really Christians either..

    This is called being “extrinisicly motivated” for being religious (e.g. you aren’t playing make-believe to play make-believe for yourself, you play make-believe to fit in with everyone else). This is a well-documented psychological phenomenon that can be measured by the Religious Orienation Scale.

    All of these people are religious, just not intrinsically motivated like you think they should be (e.g. what you might refer to as ‘piety’). You can’t call one set of people ‘not religious’ or ‘not Christian’, just because you dislike what they say or that they believe only in certain aspects of Christianity. If they still identify with the belief that ‘Jesus died and was resurrected’ historically (without proclaiming Mohammed was the final prophet, because Muslims will agree with that statement too), then they are a Christian by name and by identifying label.

  97. Just Some Guy

    Peggy/Joy ~ You’re deluding yourself if you think people are actually reading your long, boring preachy posts word-for-word. I personally just check in every few days to be amazed by the sheer volume of gibberish that has piled up, because I’ve never seen such a display of bipolar mania expressed through hypergraphia and I’m interested in abnormal psychology.

    But, no, I don’t actually read your stuff, just skim a few words here and there. It’s like watching a train wreck in slow motion — just morbid couriosity on my part, I guess.

    However, I also feel sorry for you not getting the help you need. PLEASE, please seek treatment for your bipolar disorder and obsessions. Otherwise, you’re just wasting your time — and your life.

    (BTW, extreme religiosity is another symptom related to bipolar disorder, and also to schizophrenia and other mental disorders. I strongly suspect that your religious obsessions stem from your mental problems, and not from some Holy Ghostie. You should look it up.)

  98. Peggy Miene

    I’m actually getting ready to leave, but i scanned a few bits of what you posted…

    if they are for things like abortion, and cool with homosexuality, are into health wealth and prosperty and other things that i don’t have time to mention then those are major red flags..

    Paul wrote in the Bible that there would be those who would come in and not spare the flock, then there are those christians who are charlatans trying to make money, then there are those who are like the weeds within the wheat. Then there are those who would not be able to stand real teaching but go to teachers who would tickler their ears.. (you can look up all these phrases in a bible website)

    here’s an example:
    For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3

    the bible talks about being discerning, in other words discriminating, to judge things correctly, to look beneath the surface of things..

    Christian liberals ususally don’t believe in the miricales of the bible, (which is a major one) They don’t believe in the attritbutes of God (they ONLY believe in His love and NOT His wrath), they don’t believe that the bible is infallible- or that it was inspired by God, they don’t believe in hell sometimes, (they have a misundersting about God’s Justice) they don’t even fully understand what Jesus’ purpose was and how it all fits in.

    THEY MOSTLY DON’T READ THEIR BIBLES so they don’t know what the heck is going on, they don’t evangalize, the use church as a means to network, make them look moral and good

    Dawkins talks about how there are christian liberals who (i’m parapharsing in a hurry- something to the effect that) are less annoying than the fundamentals, and side very often with evoltuionists. that even the catholic church is pretty down compared to fundmentalists

    anyways got to go…

  99. Peggy Miene

    well , just some guy, you are one opionon, the proof is right above yours, Jeff cut and pasted stuff that i wrote and so did Mr. satan and Petter writes about how i used to be funny but now i’m sad… that to me implies that people are reading.. you should learn to look beneath the surface of things… you know pick up clues..

    and even if they didn’t read it, i’d keep going anyway’s that how writers are,,, if we don’t put this running monalouge out there it will just stay trapped in our heads and build up so, i don’t only write for other people to read, i just write so i can make room for more ideas.

    the more i give; the more i get…

    actually now i’m starting to think that everyone just wants a chance to get me to respond to them..to see what i will say…

  100. Peggy Miene

    i have looked it up, did you ever notice that the prophets of God were all crazy?

    you should look that up, John the baptist, was a loon in the wilderness eating bugs, most of them did performance art out on the street..

    they often went into trances, when they were getting inspired… yep i know all about it; they got really depressed and suicidal (jerermiah)

    so it’s consitent with the bible.. but thanks for giving me a chance to respond to you because that was an awesome opp.

    those are interesting facts that i’m sure alot of people didn’t know.. but will make them more interested in looking it up…

    i must be making some good points,, so many people showed up to attack me today, that’s actually a good sign… it means you guys feel threatened.. if you feel threatened then i must be making progress.. you feel the need to shut me up before i advance some more..

    I’m writing so fast… i got to go..

  101. Steven Bentley

    Peggy/Joy? Where did you learn such nonsense? Take one guess, the B-U-Y-B-U-L-L !!!

    The BUYBULL was written to shock, awe, and inspire but not to be believed!

    A person can be seen talking to themselves and be judged insane, but someone seen talking and praying to invisible deities are judged to be very wise and noble.

  102. Atheist Named Jeff

    To be honest, I scrolled quickly to find relevant parts to post about. The whole thing is unreadable – how much free time do you think people have of a day and how much of that do you think they’d dedicate to reading all of this thread…?

    Here’s a tip Peggy: if you have that much to write, start your own blog. Maybe people that do care about what you have to say (obviously not myself) would appreciate it located on one website.

  103. Peggy Miene

    So Jeff, are you saying some parts of my stuff is relevant? Thanks I appreciate the plug. If it weren’t for you I wouldn’t have had an opportunity to elaborate on Christian Liberalism. You brought up many good points.

    Why start my own blog when this is much more fun and interactive. I get to do everything I was made for.

    I get to talk about God, think about God, debate about God, write about God, test my own thoughts, test the thoughts of others, test the Bible, get insight on what His opponents really think, learn more, do research, get better at debating, use what I’ve already learned, get challenged, learn to trust God more, see how God works more and on and on…

    This is the place to be God is here.

    I live for this stuff…. I probably should have been a lawyer. Did you know that most lawyers are also writers and sometimes become journalist or vice a versa?

    When I was a kid I also wanted to be where the trouble was; where the problems were… I saw myself as a journalist in places where there was war and stuff. There was a time when I pursued journalism; that’s why I joined the Navy but I learned that you can’t really write the truth which was what I was interested in; in most places you can only write stuff that makes other people LOOK GOOD. That’s not what I wanted… I want to get to the nitty gritty.

    Did you also know that the term ‘nitty gritty’ is a synonym for the word truth?

    So here I am…

    Did you also know that me debating you isn’t really for your benefit but for the benefit of others?

    You’re more like a stepping stone. You allow me to have a reason to put more stuff out there for those who could understand.

    Paul went out to the people to discuss and debate and it wasn’t really the people who he debated that were convinced, it was the people listening who were convinced.

    But one day some men from the Synagogue of Freed Slaves, as it was called, started to debate with him. They were Jews from Cyrene, Alexandria, Cilicia, and the province of Asia. Acts 6:9

    He debated with some Greek-speaking Jews, but they tried to murder him. Acts 9:29

    He also had a debate with some of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers. When he told them about Jesus and his resurrection, they said, “What’s this babbler trying to say with these strange ideas he’s picked up?” Others said, “He seems to be preaching about some foreign gods.” Acts 17:18

    He refuted the Jews with powerful arguments in public debate. Using the Scriptures, he explained to them that Jesus was the Messiah. Acts 18:28

  104. Peggy Miene

    Just some guy.

    You brought a good point, abnormal psychology. This is going to tie into what Steve wrote about very well…

    You, (and Petter) say that I should ‘get help’ but did you know that the psychological industry is really just that; an industry?

    They don’t really help. It’s just a business. In the old days crazy people and disabled people were dumped in an asylum. Now it’s a business. They still don’t help you much like in the old days but now they charge you for the help that they don’t give.

    They don’t help a person to get better or else they wouldn’t make any money?

    I started to ‘get help’ when I was 16, and none of the psychiatrists that I ever had told me what was wrong. They only write down information and prescribe medicine that doesn’t work.

    In all my experiences with that industry only one person ever told me something that made me better and that was an intern.

    Looking back I now know that it was his young idealism that caused him to help me. What he told me really set me free.

    Just one intern out of at least six professionals (there were probably more).

    And to tell you the truth, someone who is bi-polar wouldn’t be able to be in the Navy or the military for any length of time without having an episode and being discharged. I was on a ship for 180 consecutive days without setting foot on land (I was on the first ship to go out after Sept 11). That’s virtually impossible for a manic depressive.

    When I was 16, I was diagnosed as bi-polar, like I said before, I grew up in a house where my dad yelled a lot and I agree that causes a shift in the chemicals of the brain; I bet it’s similar to growing up in a war zone. The mind gets used to being tense all the time. And for me, I don’t mind being in tense situations which again only points to how God uses a person. I’m being used by God in a way that is already suited for me. I can be amongst you guys attacking me and criticizing me all day long… I’ve already been trained by my atheist dad… (Atheism makes people ugly and selfish and cruel and useless/ good for nothing, good for no good purpose).

    God makes good come out of evil.

    A person who is manic depressive without God wouldn’t have insight about themselves the way I do so they wouldn’t have peace therefore they wouldn’t be able to control themselves therefore they wouldn’t be able to be in tense situations without being violent therefore, I served my full four years in the Navy with an Honorable Discharge. That was when I was 25 years old..

    But when I was 19, I began a quest… I told myself, that I don’t care what happens to me, whether I end up homeless on the street, I’m gonna find out what’s wrong with me and I began to study a lot about everything; anorexics, Carl Jung , psychology and more. I know all about the stuff- I lived it; all the classifications and all… that stuff is so intricate and useless.

    (How do you think I knew about Bob so well… he’s so easy to read from an inside perspective.)
    I was an atheist at the time but slowly that led me to Buddhism and then to Christianity. It’s been a long road.

    I’ve tried it all, God is the truth, He’s the real deal… and I really studied these things, with all my heart and energy so I know that God is the truth.. I grew up Catholic as a young child.

    I think it’s the schools that do it and the world… learning about evolution in school was how I became an atheist as a kid, coupled with seeing how crappy life was.

    But now I know, people who don’t find God don’t find Him because they don’t want to..

    It’s like a thief looking for a cop.. a thief wouldn’t look for a cop..

    People who are doing the wrong thing won’t go to a cop.

    Just like my dad wouldn’t go to God, he would have to give up his selfish ways and he doesn’t want to do that.. he likes being selfish..

    Without God I would probably just be a really ill tempered person, like my dad. With God, I’m useful even with my faults.

    Even my weaknesses are turned into strengths with God at the helm.

    And I also understand that people need to categorize things; hence all the labels. You should read the Bible… it will tell you everything.

    If you look for mMe wholeheartedly, you will find Me. I will be found by you,” says the LORD. “I will end your captivity and restore your fortunes. Jer 29:13-14 (NLT)

    It’s all true…don’t let these nay sayers, deter you… they are only trying to steal what is yours… satan came to destroy, not to set free.. I know him very well…I understand how he works…

    The thief’s purpose is to steal and kill and destroy. My (Jesus) purpose is to give them a rich and satisfying life.
    John 10:10 (NLT)

  105. Peggy Miene

    Steve.

    What about Carl Jung, and Nietzsche? They both went crazy.

    Carl Jung was a psychologist, one of the founders of modern psychology and he says of himself that he had a ‘spirit guide’ named Philemon.

    He’s the guy who came up with, stuff like being an introvert/ extrovert, the ego the super ego.. and the system of classifying within psychology. It’s just a human way of understanding life.

    Don’t get it confused though, Jung didn’t believe in the Judeo Christian God of the Bible, he was more of a Gnostic which is the complete opposite of the Judeo Christian God. So I say he had a demon inspiring him.

    He was more like a shaman, not a prophet; the Bible calls them false prophets.

    Where the prophets of God were inspired and went to into trances, they didn’t go crazy like people who don’t believe in God do.

    Nietzsche was institutionalized at the end of his life; the man who said “God is dead” with his sister not really caring about getting him but more out to get his money.

    Sigmund Freud was a coke head and committed medical suicide. Is this what you’re offering, he set out to cure mental illness and he succumbed to it.

    This is what it was like for Freud when he died:
    “Now it is nothing but torture and makes no sense.”

    Source, under the heading “Death”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigmund_Freud#Death

    The Bible is an ancient book that tells of all these things; depression, suicide, human nature, on and on. (these are just the subjects we are on now but there’s more… lots, more, history, battles, builidng, geography, on and on… )

    Carl Jung is tagged with creating what we know as dream interpretation but, that was all in the Bible already.

    Joseph, a servant of God was a REAL dream interpreter and so was Daniel (you know, Daniel of the Lion’s Den).

    Job fell into a deep depression when he lost all of his stuff because satan was tormenting him.

    Depression actually comes from wounded pride. Anxiety comes from not knowing who you are, not feeling secure.

    Most people in the world don’t believe in God that’s why there are so many people with anxiety and mental health issues. It’s an epedemic now actually. A growing cancer.

    People can understand that they don’t have any control in the world so they feel anxious, this gives way to phobias and self medication and looking for ways to control themselves and to control others and so on and so on but they never feel satisfied or like they got the answer (BECAUSE THEY DON’T LOOK FOR GOD)

    All satan is doing is making the whole world abandon God. We are watching the progression of
    Sodom and Gomorrah but on a global level.

    It’s not just today, look at history. What does the word Renaissance mean? It means re-birth but what was being re-born?

    Humanistic ideas.

    It was a rebirth of folklore and paganism which led to the enlightenment/ which led to romanticism (a counter to enlightenment) and so on and so on… like the tide coming in, slow but in steady increments constantly progressing. Three steps forward, two steps back..

    That’s what’s been happening in the world.

    When God calls a person, He changes them slowly too; in the same way, like the tide coming in three steps forward, two steps back; He changes us from the inside to go against the current. That current is like a resistance that shapes the person.

    He renews our mind to think differently, not the way people in the world do…

    Don’t copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God’s will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect.
    Romans 12:2 (NLT)

    That is why we never give up. Though our bodies are dying, our spirits are being renewed every day. 2 Corinthians 4:16

    Instead, let the Spirit renew your thoughts and attitudes. Ephesians 4:23

    Because of God, everyday I’m discovering who I am more and more.

    I don’t have to be afraid of myself or other people. He uses it all. He’s the one in control; I don’t have to know anything.

    Carl Jung, Freud and Nietzsche didn’t have the same experience that I’m having now.

    As I get older and grow to understand God more and more the world, my life, everything makes more and more sense.

    They REALLY went crazy…

    John the baptist (for example) may have ‘looked’ crazy, but he actually wasn’t, and i bet Nietzche seemed real reserved and composed, and he was the one who was actually crazy.

    John grew up and became strong in spirit. And he lived in the wilderness until he began his public ministry to Israel.
    Luke 1:80 (NLT)

    Look beneath the surface so you can judge correctly.” John 7:24

    But the Lord said to Samuel, “Don’t judge by his appearance or height, for I have rejected him. The Lord doesn’t see things the way you see them.
    People judge by outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”
    1 Sam 16:7 (NLT)

  106. Peggy Miene

    and your name is from russia, my first husband was from Georgia (the country).

    there have been so many coincidences thru this whole thing… it’s been fun for me.. you have noooo idea…

  107. Peggy Miene

    actually, i met him at union sq, by where bob films all those amazing strangers…at webster hall… when i was about 20…

    gee, i wish i could get bored… they say only boring people get bored…

  108. Peggy Miene

    i think that if i had a whole month and i had absolutely nothing to do, then, and only then i could reach the state of boredom… hmmm,,, a dream…wow alex, of all the things you could be doing with your boredom and you’re spending it on me.. that’s incredible… if i was bored i would probably do something like… opps; had to stop myself there,, i guess that’s my problem… that’s probably why i can’t get bored…

  109. Peggy Miene

    i have a feeling alex, is young, less than 25; because the first thing he said was ‘the blank (f***)’ which isn’t very articulate, that was on friday, then he sees all this interaction here and he’s all like (thinking to himself) ‘i said something too; where’s my backlash??”

    so he shows up again to check and he trys again, this time with a little more content…
    people are funny…

    actually i was struck by your name on sunday, and i looked it up, i’ve been waiting for you to come back…

    maybe it’s boring to you because it’s a lot of words… i should just say what i mean… this is going to be offensive… maybe it’s boring because it’s a lot of stuff that makes you think… ok, i’mstill trying to be nice.. i should just say it..

    maybe it’s because your young… and you can’t understand what i’m talking about…

    ohhh,,, good i think i said it in a nice way..

    yes that’s it,,, because your young… when i was young i wasn’t very patient to read long drawn out things either….actually that’s not true… but I’m a girl,,, some girls like to read..but i understand… i used to be young once too… and kids like to party not learn about stuff really… i remember.. it’s ok alex… my husband grew out of it.. he’s going to get his masters now and he’s a boy so maybe one day learning will interest you too…

    (that was a fun monalogue) i hope another one like that comes along,

  110. Peggy Miene

    i also kind of have a feeling that this site isn’t really frequented by many ‘hip’ people.. i just don’t think so… not that it means anything.. it’s just a feeling i get…that the demographics of the die hards, here aren’t people who are the ‘hip’ people of the world.

  111. Peggy Miene

    the sad thing is that if you’ve ever seen a debate where Dawkins is against any Christian he gets so frustrated, he hates debating Christians…

    I saw one with him against John Lennox and Lennox rocked him to the core…

    I love this song but too bad they are all wrong… science and reason belong to God; and it’s only the scientist who are going where the evidence leads them are the ones who are really understanding the universe…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PT90dAA49Q&feature=channel_video_title

    Did you ever notice how the word ‘universe’ means one word (uni-verse) hence the word, hence Jesus??

    You should look up the etymology of the word, first ‘uni’ then ‘verse’ then ‘universe’. Pretty interesting.

    In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1 (NLT)

    Most of these guys will probably go insane.. and I love how they say that science IS a religion.

    Can’t they even see that within themselves? They are so stupid.. and dense, they can’t see themselves; they have absolute no understanding about themselves.. I mean did you see Dawkins in the movie expelled totally contradict himself and Ben Stein laughing at him… and he has no clue what is going on..

    He’s so proud of himself he can’t see, he’s in love with himself. His pride has blinded him.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlZtEjtlirc

    Dawkins and Lennox debate:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBbBenCTTwE

  112. Steven Bentley

    You know Peggy, you’re no different, you’re just like millions of other people here in America, “brainwashed-religious -fanatics”. Have you ever considered (gave it any thought) about how Jesus came over to America? Somehow, I serously doubt it. Let me tell you, OK? Jesus came over here on a boat, stuck in between the pages of an ancient book that was written by very superstitious and uneducated sheep and goat herders.

    They (the buybull writers) assumed that the thoughts that they had in their heads was given to them by an outside source, it was not, it was their own thoughts that come from every persons thoughts, “their brain” the very thing that they knew nothing about, they thought their thoughts were coming from their heart.

    The bible writers were so stupid, they thought their hearts were speaking to them, they didn’t know it was their brain, because the word “brain” is nowhere found in the bible.

    You’re leaving quotes that was written down by men, not written by any god.

    Surely a god that can create the entire universe in just six days, could have written his own book, don’t you think? Apparently not, because you are encouraged not to think own your own because thinking would require you to examine the bible and find out that it’s untrue, because the bible was written by people who wrongly thought their thoughts were being sent to them by a god.

    A god nor jesus never wrote one word of the buybull.

    The bible was written about a god and a jesus, yet they themselves never wrote one word, it was written about a god and a jesus that the bible writers had hoped existed.

    Just like you, you hope a god exists, yet you have no proof, you write about a god that you hope exist, but you have no proof and you hope you can convince other people that your god exists so you can continue to believe in invisible beings that you cannot prove exists.

    The bible was written about invisible beings, how does one write about things that cannot be seen??? The bible says that god has never been seen by anyone, yet the bible is written about a being that no one has ever seen, how do you do that??? That’s the reason the bible was written by the thoughts of men, you quote verses from men, yet you’ve yet to quote anything directly from a god.

    You’re quoting verses from second and third party resourses and not from any god, the bible has been translated thousands of times from different languages with words of different meanings.

    The bible is not the words from any god(s), it’s from the words of uneducated men that were afraid of death and the unknown.

  113. Peggy Miene

    Steve,
    can you give me any sources for any of the stuff you wrote, it all sounds like opinions… which is nice that you have one but opinions differ between people. That’s why we have developed the use of evidence and following paper trails; studying things, testing things.

    If people didn’t have things like dictionaries for example, then we could all make up our own idea of what the word ‘celebration’ meant and there would be no standards at all…

    One person could think, “It’s ok to steal, while the other would disagree”

    The only things that you wrote that would have a source are the Bible getting over here on a boat and it being inspired.

    If you would really take the time out to test the Bible, and it’s claims and if you honestly went where the evidence would lead you then you would see that it’s all bona fide truth…

    Many skeptics set out to do this: to honestly look for evidence that the Bible was false and that Jesus was false or not sinless and they all became believers.

    If you seek out the truth with an honest heart: but of course if you set out to mucky up the waters and distort the evidence then… who can win with something like that..

    How can someone telling the truth go up against a liar and win without evidence?

    I appreciate your time but there’s nothing there.. no substance, just air…

    NEXT!!!

  114. Peggy Miene

    Steve:
    If you can give me sources like these for your point of view then I’ll be open to listening, if not I am to conclude that your stuff is just jive, turkey. (In the spirit of Thanksgiving)

    I’m going to break it up into parts, that way you don’t have to read much of it, only what interests you; it was a fun exercise though I must say; it was a real challenge; this is REAL THINKING. This is how brain washed i am, that, i have evidence.. to back up what i’m saying, my thoughts aren’t creations of my own imagination like yours are… where is your inspiration coming from the compells you to write?? HMM???

    Alright lets start: with the brian…

    One of the synonyms for brain is the word mind. In the New Living Translation there are 121 verses with the word ‘mind’ in it.
    Here is the source for the word brain (look at the thesaurus): http://www.thefreedictionary.com/brain

    Here is the source for the word ‘mind’ in the NLT bible: http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=mind&searchtype=all&version1=51&spanbegin=1&spanend=73

    Here is a source for the word ‘mind’ in another bible translation (NKJB) which has 131 verses with the word ‘mind’:
    http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=mind&searchtype=all&version1=50&spanbegin=1&spanend=73

  115. Peggy Miene

    Steve: some more thinking,, this is getting deeper now…

    There was a time when people thought that world was flat and that if they traveled too far out into the sea they would fall off the edge of the earth.

    That was an opinion because they hadn’t tested out their theory. Once people started traveling further out into the world they discovered that it was not flat and that they would not fall off the edge of the earth.

    What changed? Did the facts (evidence) change or did the people’s opinion change?

    The people’s opinions changed because they saw the evidence.

    The earth was always a sphere whether the people thought it was flat or not.

    How does one right about things they cannot see?

    Scientists write about things they cannot see all the time. In astronomy they are writing about something they call “a ghost particle.”

    Here’s a quote and then the source:

    The problem for physicists is that neutrinos are impossible to see and difficult to detect. Any instrument designed to do so may feel solid to the touch, but to neutrinos, even stainless steel is mostly empty space, as wide open as a solar system is to a comet. What’s more, neutrinos, unlike most subatomic particles, have no electric charge—they’re neutral, hence the name—so scientists can’t use electric or magnetic forces to capture them. Physicists call them “ghost particles.”

    Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/Looking-for-Neutrinos-Natures-Ghost-Particles.html#ixzz1e297pPPA

    Also in astronomy black holes are really a myth at this point; the reason why scientists believe black holes exist is because of the way some stars move around and because of binary star systems.

    Here is a source for that:
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12089-do-black-holes-really-exist.html

  116. Peggy Miene

    Steve: this is the best one, this is going to knock your socks off…it’s pretty deep now, deep space nine…

    Have you ever heard of a mathematician named Peter Stoner?

    Well this guy, took it upon himself to try to see what the probability of one person being able to fulfill just 8 miracles written about the Messiah.

    I guess I have to give you some back ground on this first..

    In the Old Testament, the prophets of God, God’s messengers, predicted that a Messiah was coming to save them. I’ll use Isaiah. Isaiah wrote 700 years before Jesus was born and Isaiah wrote down the details of how Jesus the Messiah would die.

    This is significant because, Jesus was crucified on a cross. At the time that Isaiah wrote these details in the late 8th to early 7th century (remember that B.C. goes down and A.D. goes up) the Romans hadn’t invented this form of execution yet. Crucifixion was started in 6th B.C. up until the 4th century A.D.

    Here’s a source for that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion

    Now how do we find out about Isaiah? Did he exist or not?

    Whether you believe that the Bible is the word of God or not; all historians agree that the Bible is a historical document. The Bible names place that existed in the ancient world and it records the events of what took place in those times.

    For instance there are hundreds of cites that the Bible mentions that have been found by archaeologist. Cites like Bethel, Jericho, Shechem, etc, etc.

    Also there are Kings mentioned in the Bible. The writers of the Bible weren’t the only people recording history, Egyptian Kings had their recorders and so did the other kingdoms at that time.
    These Kings also had their artists too who would draw their images and or sculpt them.

    So when Isaiah writes that:
    “It was in the year King Uzziah died that I saw the Lord.” Isaiah 6:1 (NLT)
    Isaiah is using a historical event to pin point what year it was when he had his first vision.

    Here’s a source for King Uzziah’s existence:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzziah_of_Judah
    Uzziah reigned fifty-two years in the middle of the 8th century BC.

    So these people existed.

    Secular history confirms this. One example of secular writing during Isaiah’s time are the writings of the Assyrians.

    Isaiah writes this in reference to Jesus’death, mind you 700 years before Jesus was born and about 100 years before the invention of Crucifixion as a form of execution. Isaiah had already died before the Crucifixion was even invented.

    “But He was pierced for our rebellion, crushed for our sins. He was beaten so we could be whole. He was whipped so we could be healed. Isaiah 53:5 (NLT)”

    Isaiah even mentions how He would die like a criminal yet put into a rich man’s grave; which is exactly what happened.

    Read:
    But He was buried like a criminal; He was put in a rich man’s grave. Isaiah 53:9 (NLT)

    This is from the New Testament after Jesus had been crucified.

    Read:
    As evening approached, Joseph, a rich man from Arimathea who had become a follower of Jesus, went to Pilate and asked for Jesus’ body. And Pilate issued an order to release it to Him. Joseph took the body and wrapped it in a long sheet of clean linen cloth. He placed it in his own new tomb, which had been carved out of the rock. Matt 27:57-60 (NLT)

    Now, you have to admit that you at least know that Pilate was a real man, a real Roman Governor.

    A Roman historian named Cornelius Tacitus wrote about Pilate and Jesus.

    Remember these are pagans who have no reason to write about Jesus but he wrote about Jesus; so Jesus did exist.

    Here’s archaeological proof of Pilate’s existence:
    http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/pontius-pilate-faq.htm

    So now we go back to Peter Stoner the mathematician who wanted to see what the probability of one person fulfilling just 8 miracles predicted about the Messiah and he punched in the numbers and he got the answer of: 1 in 10 to the 17th power.

    That’s 17 zeros. The Odds are impossible.

    That’s 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000.

    So that means that the odds of one person full filling just 8 is 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000.

    Virtually impossible; the number is essentially 0.

    That’s a 0 chance that one person could randomly fulfill 8 predictions and that’s not even counting the fact that Jesus fulfilled somewhere in the number of 400 predictions.

    Things having to do with where He would be born, how He would be born, miracles that He would perform, how He would be treated, how much He would be sold out for, how His ancestors would be and on and on.

    The source for this is here: it’s from a book called Sceince Speaks by Peter Stoner and you can quickly scroll down to # 8 where he (Peter) starts to conclude his point, the sentence reading qoute

    “After studying the methods of execution down through the ages and their frequency” and then on..

    http://sciencespeaks.dstoner.net/Christ_of_Prophecy.html

  117. Aaron

    Wow!
    How much time must Peggy have?
    I think I know her daily schedule

    8am: Wake up, normalbobsmith rants for 4hrs
    12pm: lunch
    12.30pm: Therapy
    12.31pm: More normalbobsmith rants
    6am: Bed

  118. Peggy Miene

    Aaron

    i do have a lot of time on my hands, I’m a house wife,,, remember Peggy Bundy, Married with Children, sitting on the couch eating bon bons and watching soap operas..

    well i don’t like soap operas,, plus I stay up late and i’m always thinking… Yep, God is utilizing me perfectly for my personality…

    I like how you’ve kept up with me so long that you’ve noticed a pattern.

    That means you must check in a lot..

    You must check in several times a day so that you would be able to track what times you notice my posts…

    Whether they came in during the morning or the afternoon.. or at night.

    Pretty Clever Aaron you should be a spy or something..

    But yeah, I’m just as excited as you are to see how this will go… I’m kind of full of myself and I like to see how people are going to respond.

    I check in often actually.

    I bet you couldn’t wait to come and check back to see if there was something in here for you.

    It’s human nature.. no mystery. Nothing out of this world.

    And I can tell that you starting to notice how much fun it is to write and to be sarcastic and funny at the same time while taking jabs at someone..

    It’s fun isn’t it, especially when you feel clever huh?

    you come up with an idea and you just got to put it out there.. I’m noticing how you had to come back three times because your thought process went on and you kept coming up with better jokes about me and you couldn’t help putting it out there. ..

    Yep now you know (a little bit) of how it feels… I must be rubbing off on you..
    huh, huh… the seeds are growing..

    you are the first to sprout..

    I see green blades of grass

  119. Peggy Miene

    Aaron,
    You’re noticing patterns, now you are starting to be an observer.
    That’s science.
    Do you know what science means?
    It means knowledge:

    Check out the etymology of the word science:
    http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=science&allowed_in_frame=0

    Etymology is the science (the knowledge) of word origins.
    Words evolve as time goes by, but they can be traced back, just like a family tree, this is history.
    People who don’t study, who don’t pay attention don’t understand what science is?
    They believe that science is a man-made thing. It’s not.
    Science belongs to God.
    When we do science and we do it correctly we discover (we pull the cover off of) God.
    We discover God.
    That’s what science is for.
    Noticing patterns is a very good way to start.
    Have you ever noticed the pattern that all trees grow from soil?
    (Note: I don’t mean plants or shrubs- I mean trees and bamboos aren’t trees they are grass/ plants)
    I’ve never seen a tree grow from a cloud for instance.
    That’s something you can depend on; a tree will never grow out of a cloud.
    That’s a standard. Something fixed… the opposite of something mutable (something that changes).
    In nature, as in life there are things that are always the same.

  120. normalbob Post author

    Peggy doesn’t understand one of the most basic elements of conversing online. If comments take hours (or days) to get through they pretty much go unread. But I don’t think she even cares if people listen to her. She can’t help her condition and has to blast her every thought all over everyone like high pressure fire hose that can’t be shut off. If she really wanted to be listened to she’d give people a chance to respond, then counter respond, and so fourth, in brief paragraphs.

    She was writing me letters telling me who she thought I was, asking me questions, and accusing me of awful things, then 20 minutes later write another letter retracting some things, while adding others. Then before I could respond writing another mile long letter a half day later chastising me for not responding and then an hour after that another whole new list of complaints and personal attacks. She just wants to empty her brain of everything that troubles it, which has no end in sight.

  121. Peggy Miene

    Why don’t you guys spend time, giving evidence to your beliefs instead of directing your energies on me?

    Your faith in atheism must be a blind one.

    You guys are so focused on shutting me up and so focused on convincing me that no one reads what I write.

    If no one reads what I write why are you guys here spending your time telling me so?

    You have to purposely choose to get to this part of the Hate mail; don’t you?

    So you have to purposely come here to ignore me…

    That’s flattering actually… You’re encouraging me more.

    What you guys are doing is called peer pressure.

    That stuff only works on people who care about what others think of them. It’s not very effective on me so it doesn’t work.

    I mean notice how Bob, himself writes a chronology of my letters.

    How I wrote such and such in one then I would switch thought in another then back…

    Doesn’t that imply that he’s reading them? You have to look beneath the surface of things. Things aren’t always what they seem.

    Anyone who wants to read what I wrote to Bob can read it for themselves, stuff that he wasn’t going to post.

    Stuff that I posted.

    He wants to make it seem like he totally over powers these people who write ‘hate mail’ to him and you guys believe it.

    I’m living proof that he doesn’t over power all of them and that he doesn’t post everything that they write.

    Bob’s, only concern is that people love and adore him which is satan’s point as well.

    He doesn’t care about people. He only cares for them in as far as what he can get from them.

    What was it that he wrote on the Youtube post of Inna (it’s on his normalbob site)
    Quote: “Inna is so fucking cute! Lotsa people don’t get to see that side of her. But I do. And it’s because I’m so goddamned special.”

    The girl is obviously feeling vulnerable, I have no idea what she’s going through but I do know what it’s like to be a girl out in the world with not much to choose from.

    But what does the penis in Bob think?

    “Oh this is so cool, she’s opening up to me, I’m special, And here, I’m going to post it to prove it. Now everyone can see how special I am. Who cares what she’s really feeling? Or how I can really help.”

    Isn’t that something to feel sorry about? For him and for her.

    They’re both lost.

    I have so many problems and despite what you guys say, I’m not even that sad.
    I don’t have anyone on my side here and still here I stand; why?

    Because my beliefs are real, they are not blind. They are based on a real God who really changes a person from the inside out.

    My beliefs don’t shift around and they don’t depend on my moods, or on the opinions of others about me.

    All you guys have are opinions, not facts; which is one of my main points.

    There’s this song by this female band I used to know and they have a lyric that I TOTALLY RELATE TO very similar to what Bob said about me and WHAT I’VE BEEN SAYING ABOUT MY SELF (no big surprise).

    It goes like this:

    “I’d like to set my head right down on the floor and see it ooze right on out the door”
    To tell you the truth, you guys are starting to get me to see how mature I’ve become.

    I like how you guys keep saying my stuff is too long. A lot of people’s stuff is long.

    Bob’s stuff is too long, but it’s mostly stuff about him self.

    It’s not information. It’s research.

    And as I’m looking up research I notice how long their stuff is, I have to comb thru their stuff just to pull out the little piece that I need. It makes me think that I’ve moved out of the realm of a bunch of stoned pseudo intellectual people talking nonsense and moved on to the realm of a real thinker.

    I’m in company with those long winded people who are really writing about what is going on in the world and what has been going on in the world.

    I’m so long winded that the stupid and lazy people don’t have the patience to read it. That’s why they are stupid and lazy, because they don’t push, themselves, they are left out of the ‘KNOW’ because they leave themselves out of it.

    That’s a mighty good compliment no matter how involuntarily it was.

    So thanks guys..

  122. Peggy Miene

    Writers write for the future, not just for the present. Duh, that’s obvious.

    How many writers are being read today and now but they wrote, centuries ago.

    Please, I would be stupid to listen and believe you guys..

    You guys are only confirming and proving how important it is for me to keep going.

    Someone will read it if they aren’t now.

    I’m reading George Orwell’s ‘1984’ right now and I haven’t gotten very far into it but it’s shows how history repeats.

    What he went thru in the past is what we are going thru now.

    It was published in 1949 a year before he died- I’m glad he wrote it.

    I’m reading it today 60 years later.

    So your logic is very short sighted and it doesn’t reflect what happens in real life.

    That ideas and words and writings go on.

    Do you know how Anne Franks’ diary got published?

    She obviously didn’t make that happen herself. She was captured by the Nazis beforehand and died in a concentration camp.

    The diary was kept by the person who hid her and the family and later given back to the father who survived.

    Anne Frank died, not knowing that she in fact realized her dreams of being a writer.

    If she didn’t give up and something came of it why should I?

    I have a much better chance. I would be totally ungrateful if I gave up compared to her.

    If we study the things that happen in life, in real life and if we go where the evidence takes us we would learn a lot more and see things as they really are.

  123. Peggy Miene

    did you also know that atheists are the least trusted group?

    “It seems most Americans believe that diversity is fine, as long as every one shares a common ‘core’ of values that make them trustworthy—and in America, that ‘core’ has historically been religious,” says Edgell. Many of the study’s respondents associated atheism with an array of moral indiscretions ranging from criminal behavior to rampant materialism and cultural elitism.
    -end of qoute

    source:

    http://www1.umn.edu/news/news-releases/2006/UR_RELEASE_MIG_2816.html

  124. Peggy Miene

    let me ask you this

    why do you think Bob, posts all of the hatemail he gets?

    do you think that he thinks that every single person who passes by his website is going to read every single piece, of mail?

    Of course not… but even so, there have been some who have written

    “I finally read all of the hate mail” or they write ” i finally watched all of the amazing stranger videos”

    and the same could be said about his Jesus and satan comic book, that thing is long too and all the sheeple stuff..

    so it really doesn’t matter who reads what or how much they read..

    the fact that you say no one reads what i write only leads me to think that i can write as much as i want since no one is reading it.. and that i can write whatever i want.. since no one is reading it.

    some people might see that as a discouragement, I see it as an opportunity.

    “The less room you give me the more space I’ve got”- Bjork.

    The sky is the limit; for someone like me…

    Think people

    think…

  125. Peggy Miene

    i hate when i make mistakes,

    i wrote above, “It’s not information. It’s research.”

    i meant: Bob’s stuff isn’t information while some of my stuff is information on facts and such, and it’s also research. it’s a mix of alot of stuff; i thank Bob for leaving this forum open like this, it’s been awesome.

    I think a lot of people are going to learn alot, i think even Christians who stumble here will learn not to be afriad of athiests and they will learn to face them head on, just like i’ve learned by watching so many do the same.. and i think it’s great to be here. More Christians should come and do the same.

    Learn to be patient, learn to take the insults learn to not be afraid of what the opponent can do or say.. and just tackle em head on.. this has been a blast… i don’t know how much longer it will but with God’s help, i’m here indefenatly bad spelling, mistakes and all.

    One of Bob’s people even contacted me on my Youtube channel as well which shows another person following along.. it’s great exposure for God’s message; i think it’s great.

    while others might be intimidated and don’t like being harassed, i don’t really mind.. like i said i’m curious to see how far this will go.. more harassers more exposure, more people hearing about God, more people hearing facts that they didn’t know, more people pushing me to do the research…i enjoy the challenge..

    i’m so obsessed with evangalizing and debating that i dream about it at night…

    i even had a dream of Bob, yelling at me last night (before i knew he had posted) to leave him alone..and when am i going to shut up and why don’t i stop..

    so i know this is good..i take it as a good sign; as a heads up; if Bob’s mad then i must be advancing.. it’s all gravy baby..

  126. Hellbound Alleee

    Thanks for the update, Bob. I actually DID do a lot of scrolling with my mouth hanging open.

    When you’ve been a vocal atheist for as long as I have (and you and I were atheists probably around the same time, at least openly), you learn to see keywords, because you see those same words in emails and posts all the time.

    This is another case of another Peggy presenting the same arguments that we’ve dealt with many times. It takes a lot of patience to answer them over and over, and I think Bob has more patience than I. I’m learning this, but it does take time.

    I had a “Peggy” in my life when I was younger and hipper. My Peggy had the most severe OCD and ADD I’d ever seen. She was mostly manic all the time, and I found it nearly impossible to simply walk down Broadway in Seattle to go to a grocery store with her, as she would be distracted by something with every step we’d take (I’m not exaggerating here). It took us two hours onetime to walk four blocks, and then at the grocery store she had to read every label on every product she bought.

    I think it must have been really hard for her to live her life that way. How in the world could she progress as an individual? The beliefs she held were part and parcel to her OCD: she truly believed rituals had an effect on the universe around her, and if she did not perform each ritual, she would lose some kind of control she thought she had over the universe, or God, or whatever it was she believed.

    I will answer one of Peggy’s rambling thoughts: she was trying to make some kind of point against atheism by pointing out that nobody likes us.

    It’s hard to remain loyal to the truth and what you know is right when you know that it might be so much easier to do the comfortable thing and settle into behaving and believing like so many people around you, even in your own family. How easy it would be to be “normal,” and “straight,” and fit in! It’s amazing that we don’t just go along with everyone who doesn’t trust atheists to date their daughters! But we don’t, because we know we couldn’t live with ourselves if we weren’t honest with ourselves.

    Not that some people don’t do it already: look at all the many, many Christian anti-gay leaders who turned out to be gay themselves? There are a lot of them, aren’t there? This is what happens to people who cannot be honest with themselves. They couldn’t possibly be very happy, living double lives and trying to keep an essential part of themselves secret, could they?

    There are not really a whole lot of things that all atheists could have in common save for the whole not believing in gods thing. But there is one thing that I think many of us do share: we think that it’s very important that the things we believe are true. I’m sorry to say that the believers in my life tend to not care about that very much.

  127. Peggy Miene

    whoo, hoo, stuff to read… With God’s help, i’ll get to it tomorrow, it’s the holidays, i got feasting and cleaning and planning on my mind but keep them, coming, lets see what happens…

  128. Peggy Miene

    Hellbound, you didn’t say much of anything.

    and this sentence doesn’t make any sense.

    “It’s hard to remain loyal to the truth and what you know is right when you know that it might be so much easier to do the comfortable thing and settle into behaving and believing like so many people around you, even in your own family.”

    so are you saying you do remain loyal to the truth or you don’t??? Or are you giving up being comfortabel for the truth???

    I don’t get it..

    I tried to chop it up to see if i could see what you were talking about

    i tried this combo (which i thought were the main points) but the two points contradict each other so i doubted that’s what you meant.

    -It’s hard to remain loyal to the truth when you know that it might be so much easier to do the comfortable thing-

    i still didn’t get it, then i tried:

    - It’s hard to remain loyal to the truth when you know that it might be so much easier to do the comfortable thing and settle into behaving and believing like so many people around you, even in your own family.-

    but it seemed too long even though it’s not a full sentence, there is no main idea in that sentence; it just runs off and dies.

    What are you talking about? That the comfortable thing is to lie to yourself; i don’t see how that would be comfortable?

    again, i doubt that’s what you mean..

    i realized that this part was a mess

    -what you know is right when you know-

    then you have 3 consecutive ands.. in the original rull sentence.

    i just scraped that sentence and figured the next one would give me the picture.

    “How easy it would be to be “normal,” and “straight,” and fit in! It’s amazing that we don’t just go along with everyone who doesn’t trust atheists to date their daughters!”

    i don’t know, not much of anything in the whole thing

    just a bunch of opinions.
    there are a lot of athiests around my dad is one, they’ve been growing more and more since darwin.. people have been want to get rid of God since the begining that’s actually not a new movement at all..

    and what i think your referring to is a study done by the Univer. of Michigan on Atheists being polled by a survey as the least trusted group. Not that no likes them..

    I don’t know.. it’s incredible what one finds when they test a thing..

    You guys really have no bases for you beliefs do you?

    I bet you’ve never really studied it, have you? How can you talk about being honest with yourself if you can’t even face what you believe..

    you’ve never faced it, you just want a reason to do what ever you want and think that there are no consequences..

    It’s like a kid at school who tells himself, “i’ll get around to doing my paper, i have every intention of it” but then when the times comes he doesn’t do it at all and blames the teacher with some bogus excuse.. “well he didn’t even give us enough time to finish it- what did he expect, it’s thanksgiving break” then when he gets an f, he deflects the blame and shakes it off with an “i don’t even care about school” never putting the blame on himself and calling it what it is.

    “I’m lazy and i don’t feel like doing the paper and i would much rather hang out with my friends.”

    something like that..

    Instead of saying “there is no God to believe in” why don’t you guys say what you want to say

    ” i don’t want to believe in God”

    That would be more, respectable. You guys look corny. You might fool a few people, but when someone actually determines to meet you face to face there isn’t anything there.

    That’s what i want people to see.. and get from this.. the people who are on the fence, so that they can see a clear picture.

    i used to be on the fence, i used to be that person who didn’t know how to tell.

    but happy thanksgiving anyways.. oh there might be typos; i’m on vaca mode..

  129. Hellbound Alleee

    “Hellbound, you didn’t say much of anything.

    and this sentence doesn’t make any sense.

    “It’s hard to remain loyal to the truth and what you know is right when you know that it might be so much easier to do the comfortable thing and settle into behaving and believing like so many people around you, even in your own family.”

    I should have said “It seems like the easier thing to do,” when it turns out that lying to yourself harms you more. Thank you for the English lessons. Sometimes I write without thinking.

    just a bunch of opinions.

    That’s your opinion.

    there are a lot of athiests around my dad is one, they’ve been growing more and more since darwin.. people have been want to get rid of God since the beginning

    Can’t “get rid of” something that doesn’t exist.

    that’s actually not a new movement at all..
    I agree. Speaking of grammar lessons, you end your “sentences” with ellipses. That’s not proper.

    and what i think your referring to is a study done by the Univer. of Michigan on Atheists being polled by a survey as the least trusted group. Not that no likes them..

    I was referring to your own comments. It’s okay, though. I imagine it’s hard to remember what you said when you write so goddamned much.

    You guys really have no bases for you beliefs do you?

    To what beliefs are you referring?

    I bet you’ve never really studied it, have you? How can you talk about being honest with yourself if you can’t even face what you believe..
    Be careful what you bet on.

    you’ve never faced it, you just want a reason to do what ever you want and think that there are no consequences..</i

    …instead of being able to “do whatever you want,” pray for forgiveness, and go to heaven anyway?

    You have made an interesting assumption about consequences. The truth is that every action has a reaction. This is the basis for morality. When one makes a choice, one’s action always has a result. Every choice one makes has a consequence. This is what I know. Someone may have told you that nothing matters unless it happens after you die. I think that’s silly. When you live not believing in a god, you inevitably accept something called “moral autonomy.” You are responsible, and there is no supernatural character to magically make it go away.

    Instead of saying “there is no God to believe in” why don’t you guys say what you want to say

    ” i don’t want to believe in God”

    This is called a “strawman argument.” You are arguing a statement that you made and/or assumed. You are arguing against yourself; not what someone actually told you. That’s not fair, and it’s useless toward making any kind of point. I’ve never said “there is no god to believe in.” I do not believe in any god definition that has been presented to me. I have no idea what god you believe in or why. I have no statement to make about it.

    I think I said a lot. By the way, my name is Alleee. The word “Hellbound” is an adjective, not a noun. It was given to me by Christians who think I deserve to be tortured forever. If there is anything I do not “want” to believe, it is that. In fact, if I did believe in hell, that would be the number one reason to not worship the god who made hell, and the god who made up the rule that anyone who does not love him must go there.

    Would you vote for a presidential candidate who declared “All the voters who vote for another candidate will be put into a prison camp, and tortured, after I am elected. I demand not only respect, but love from you worthless, terrible people. You should all understand how much I love you, because I am offering you a way out of this prison camp; your love in return for your freedom.”

    I’d understand if your fear would cause you to vote for this person. This is why morality sometimes means making a tough choice; even if it means standing up to Ultimate Power.

  130. Peggy Miene

    HB Alleee

    Where did I say that atheists aren’t liked much?

    The only place I mentioned anything like that was an article I posted on Nov 19 and a quote that I pulled straight out of the article and pasted right above the link. I even said, “the least trusted group.”

    You can look it up yourself; just scroll up and verify.

    If you did read the stuff that I wrote you would see that I’m am definitely not lying to myself in fact I divulge some pretty personal information.

    If you notice on Nov 6 the writer named Atheist even warns me that I shouldn’t put such things on the internet.

    Yes, I totally agree with you, many people lie to themselves; people who call themselves Christians and non Christians too.

    The Bible repeats over and over again about, true and false believers, and don’t be mislead; that you have to test someone by what comes out of them (the whole fruit thing- I’m sure you’ve heard of verses like these) and that there will always be false ‘believers’ among the real ones.

    You’re not saying anything that any real Christian doesn’t already know. Jesus says those who really love Him will keep His commandments.

    Again if you had read what I have been writing you would understand why I say you are only giving opinions; it’s been a running theme here.

    I’ve given facts.

    If you want to you can read what I wrote to Steve on Nov 18; that stuff is good bona fide facts; look them up if you want to.

    There are other examples, but, I’ll keep this simple.

    It’s not an opinion to point out what an opinion is.

    An opinion can be proven to be an opinion.

    If I point out something as an opinion, that is a fact.

    Read the definitions if you’re not sure.

    This is the definition of the word opinion.
    o•pin•ion
    1. A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof:

    You didn’t lay down any facts. You just laid down opinions.

    So as not to mince words though, I’ll give you that there are some “Christians” who don’t measure up and we can look them up but I’ve already addressed that with the whole, some people aren’t real Christians.

    This is what fact means.
    fact 1. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences.

    I head (as in a headline/ header) them (the posts/ responses) with the name “Steve” for example so that people can just read what is for them, which is why I ‘headed’ what was a response to you as ‘hellbound’

    I guess although I write a lot, I’ve got a pretty good handle on what I’ve written and where to find stuff Huh? What do you think? Again if you can find where I wrote that “atheists aren’t liked” or “no one likes atheists” I’d really like to see that. Point it out to me please.

    Maybe since you misunderstood that; that would explain why you misunderstood why Christians tell you that you are hell bound. If you don’t believe in God then and “if” He is real then you will go to hell.

    They probably weren’t just trying to be mean to you. The truth hurts..

    The best you can come up with is that I end my sentences with a bunch of punctuations???
    Even with all the typos I made, that’s what you saw? (I don’t always proof read before I post- a bad habit).

    I see you’ve studied some philosophy and/or ethics.

    Actually, you’ve got Christianity all wrong. You forgot about repentance. That means admitting what you’ve done and turning toward God thru Jesus for forgiveness and a new heart.

    If you’ve ever faced yourself, you’ll know that repentance hurts a lot. It also hurts when you have to apologize to someone else for what you’ve done.

    A secular example of this is found within the ‘twelve steps’ program of AA or NA. The point is that the person has to admit, take the blame and face up to what they have done.

    Remember, the truth hurts, that’s why people run from the truth and they run from the light and they don’t want to face things. We don’t want to see ourselves as we truly are.

    When we admit who we are then God helps us to change.

    We do believe in consequences, very much so… within the ten commandments you’ll notice that the first three are directed toward our conduct to God, the fourth is in reference to our own health and respect for God, and the rest are directed at how we are to approach man..

    In other words, how to approach God and how to treat our fellow humans.

    Your example for the whole ruler thing, actually happened. Hitler

    The Germans knew that the Jews were being gathered up and that they were disappearing; some good Germans tried to hide some Jews. Others reported them. Propaganda was rampant against the Jews. The majority of the people liked it because it fit with their wants and beliefs anyways. People who didn’t agree were killed. You explained it perfectly, yeah..

    But how did Hiltler get everyone on his side?

    By lying to them. By making promises to them.

    Most of that war was funded by the money that they stole from the Jews/ and or anyone who they killed and seized their assets… Can you believe that?

    Wow, I could go on and on, you brought up some really good points.

    Maybe I’ll continue later though. You never know..

    I didn’t proof read again.. I hope it makes sense.

  131. Aaron

    Peggy

    Its rude to ignore people, and time is clearly not an issue for you, please answer my question, or are you simply afraid of what your answer (no matter what it may be) will speak volumes about your faith and your previous comments (numerous as they may be)

  132. Peggy Miene

    Aaron,
    A better question is
    If you can see what is rude in me, why can’t you see what is rude in you?
    You obviously have the ability to see such things. Why the double standard?
    Just like this God will ask you, “Aaron, you can point the finger at someone but you never pointed it at yourself. You can tell what is right and what is wrong, but you go easy on yourself and you are harsh on others.”
    Aaron, you just judged yourself. Your own words will accuse you one day.

    Your building up wrath for yourself..

  133. Peggy Miene

    Aaron

    “Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. For you will be treated as you treat others. The standard you use in judging is the standard by which you will be judged.
    “And why worry about a speck in your friend’s eye when you have a log in your own?
    Matt 7:1-3 (NLT)

    to answer your question though, i don’t know if God can make a tree grow from a cloud.

    I guess the quality of the person dictates the quality of the question.

    these are more important:

    What’s the purpose of life? Why are we here?

    What happens when we die? What about justice?

    Atheists can’t give good answers (for anything – as it turns out) but especially these.

    An atheist is no comfort when a loved one dies. What can they say? They don’t believe in anything anyways.

    Here’s an example:

    “Your Grandpa died, they buried him and there’s nothing left of him. His whole life meant nothing and you’ll never see him again. Yes he was special to you but he will only live on in your memories and then when you die those memories will die too it all meant nothing”

    Or let’s try the flip side; let’s say the grandpa was a molester- just an example:

    “Yes, your grandpa died and I know he never admitted what he did to you and I know you feel like you never got justice for that but, he’s dead now and his life didn’t mean anything anyways and one day you’ll die too so neither does yours; it doesn’t matter whether he molested you; live it up and then die, forget about being molested.”

    See, the atheist has no good answers when he’s even trying to be serious and answer something.. There’s nothing there.

    maybe that’s why they are the least trusted.. if you don’t stand for something, you fall for everything. (fall straight into a pit)

  134. Hellbound Alleee

    Peggy:

    Give me a fucking break. Repentance hurts a lot? Wah.

    But you still haven’t established the fact that only people who believe as you do have consequences for their actions. Consequences are real things, not something to worry about for when you die, or, wah, the “consequence” of repenting.

    In secret.

    With your eyes closed.

    To an imaginary friend.

    Again I say, give me a fucking break.

    Ever hear the joke, “I was very religious as a child. I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. But then I realized: the Lord, in his Infinite Wisdom, does not work that way.

    “So I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.”

    Consequences are facts. If you eat too much all the time, you get fat, or diabetes, or high blood sugar.

    Fact.

    If you beat someone up, the people who love that person–or that person himself–will retaliate. Or call the cops. Or sue you.

    Fact.

    If you choose to have sex without birth control, you risk pregnancy.

    Fact.

    If you plant a garden, and you work hard, you’ll probably gro things.

    Fact.

    If you don’t water or fertilize your garden, the plants will die.

    Fact.

    So tell me again, Miss Peggy, how is it that we atheists can “do whatever we want with no consequences?” I’m so very curious.

  135. Mikey

    Let’s see….an atheist can give no comfort….an atheist stands for nothing….we are least trusted (and apparently she thinks it’s justified)….we believe in nothing….we cannot be rational….

    She’s only a step away from declaring us short of being human. We have seen this crap before throughout history

    I think it is time to stop feeding this hateful troll who masquerades as a Christian.

  136. Bobbi Jo

    lol Peggy I am not mad in the picture.. I sent in a picture with a serious face because I thought it would be appropriate for the response. But I would be more than happy to post pictures of me and my beautiful smile :) Just let me know Peggy.

  137. Aaron

    Peggy

    You dont know if God can make a tree grow from clouds?
    But Peggy….cant God do anything…..ANYTHING!
    Wouldnt that include making a tree grow from clouds?
    Its nice to see my simple “Yes or No” question turned into yet another rant by you, with the subtle “Oh well I dont know” thrown in as your answer.

    I only said ignoring people was rude, and you were ignoring me, merley an observation, yes you were being rude, not sure I understand what your tirade was about afterwards….and wrath?! bit of an over-reaction dont you think?
    God sends people to hell just for being rude now?

    As for the rest of your rant

    Purpose of life – There is none, why do you feel this infinte universe owes you a purpose? Are you not happy just living your life? Do you feel un-important without God?
    What happens when we die? Nothing! Its a harsh fact yes but a fact nonetheless
    And what do you mean justice, justice for the dead? I see no sense in that!
    Ofcourse if you are talking about a heaven/hell scenario that is about as far from any real justice as one can be! We’re talking real evil dictator stuff here!

    Athiests give great answers to these questions, you just dont like the answers, thats your issue not ours.
    And when a loved one dies I miss them deeply, mourn the loss and remember the happy memories.
    I take comfort in my friends, family and others around me who are sharing my grief, it is a very real form of comfort and you should try it some time.

    Im really not sure I understood your Grandpa analaogy, did your Grandpa molest you? If so thats horrific and im sorry to hear that.

    You seem to have a very cynical view of athiests, and it seems more to do with your own impession of us than how we actually are (which clearly you have no understanding of whatsoever)
    Again thats your issue, not ours.

    We could care less what you think

    Aaron

  138. Peggy Miene

    HB Alleee

    You’re contradicting yourself,

    I assume when you wrote this:
    “instead of being able to “do whatever you want,” pray for forgiveness, and go to heaven anyway?” –HB Alleee

    You were referring to Christians, being able to do whatever they want and then praying it away.

    I also understand that you made that statement in reference to my statement:
    “you’ve never faced it, you just want a reason to do what ever you want and think that there are no consequences” Peggy Miene

    Where did I say “people who believe as I do have consequences?”

    You said that; hence referring to Christians being able to pray something away.

    You misunderstand a lot. You’re all over the place. You showed me that you don’t understand my points at all. I’m wondering if you can read, and I’m not being funny. It’s comprehension.

    Your thoughts are a mess so you understand things in a mess. You interpret the information in a mess.

    Try to follow along now.

    When I said:
    “you’ve never faced it, you just want a reason to do what ever you want and think that there are no consequences” Peggy Miene

    I was referring to Atheists.

    But I never said Christians DIDN’T have to face their consequences. I wasn’t talking about Christians. I was talking about Atheist. Its called context.

    We (Christians) obviously do understand consequences since we repent and go to God.

    I don’t think you can follow your own arguments which is probably why you don’t have the patience to have these conversations very often.

    There is NO fact I have to establish; in reference to your:
    “But you still haven’t established the fact that only people who believe as you do have consequences for their actions.” –HB Alleee

    That doesn’t even make any sense either.

    What are you asking?

    That I haven’t shown you proof that only Christians have to face their consequences?

    I wasn’t even talking about that- you misunderstood my point- but that being said, you are actually arguing for me now by saying that; so thanks.

    You are agreeing with me that Christians do admit their sins and face their consequences.

    I know consequences are real things; that’s why I admit them to God who can forgive them.

    If you’ve ever repented of something then you know that you feel bad at the present moment.

    I don’t understand why you keep bringing in an example of “when I die”

    Who said that?

    Here is the definition of repent:
    re•pent
    1. To feel remorse, contrition, or self-reproach for what one has done or failed to do; be contrite.

    Repenting hurts, it hurts in many different ways; if you don’t understand this then you must not be a person who says “I’m sorry” very often.

    It hurts a person’s pride/ ego. It’s embarrassing. It’s hard to do, it feels very uncomfortable.

    Sometimes when I have to apologize for something I find myself laughing because I feel so nervous that someone is looking at me in the face while I’m apologizing. I feel stupid, my face gets red, blood rushes to my face, I feel exposed like people can see how worthless I am and I hate admitting I make mistakes. It makes a person feel small.

    Then afterwards a person feels shame.. and guilt because they realize they aren’t as good as they thought they were.

    These are examples of how much it hurts to ‘repent’; hence the definition of FEELING REMORSE.

    Feeling something.. sensation. To feel.

    If you are not one to repent; then I bet you have a lot of bad relationships because it’s hard to have relationships when you can’t say you’re sorry. If you are human then you’ve made mistakes when dealing with people so you’ve must have had to say you’re sorry at some point in your life.

    And I’m sure you appreciate it as well when someone faults you and admits it; unless you are the type to “pretend nothing happened” in a misguided attempt to ‘keep the peace and you sweep things under the rug.’ Which isn’t really keeping the peace, it’s being a coward.

    Actually I never heard that joke. But I guess the problem starts at the point where the kid is praying for a bike.

    Why didn’t he just get a paper route or mow some lawns to earn some money for a bike while praying for something a little less selfish.

    I know consequences are facts. If you keep calling God an imaginary friend then He won’t make Himself known to you. That’s a consequence.

    If you do that until the day you die you will go to hell; that’s a consequence.

    Those examples that you mentioned are all facts.

    I’m glad you’ve learned something due to the fact (you can verify the occurrence) that I showed you the difference between an opinion and a fact. You’re making really good progress.

    (BTW – you also said this “I have no idea what god you believe in or why. I have no statement to make about it” but yet you know that I pray for forgiveness you mentioned heaven- that’s another contradiction)

  139. Peggy Miene

    HB Alleee
    I do want to address something that you wrote about earlier.

    You write:
    “If there is anything I do not “want” to believe, it is that. In fact, if I did believe in hell, that would be the number one reason to not worship the god who made hell, and the god who made up the rule that anyone who does not love him must go there.” –HB Alleee

    God doesn’t want you to go to hell, that’s why He has people telling you about the ‘CONSEQUENCES’ of turning away from Him.

    God uses an example of a watchman on watch during a time of war. A person on watch keeps a look out while the other people sleep. When the enemy comes to attack the person on watch lets everybody know; he sounds the alarm for everyone else to get prepared.

    Read:
    But if the watchman sees the enemy coming and doesn’t sound the alarm to warn the people, he is responsible for their captivity. They will die in their sins, but I will hold the watchman responsible for their deaths.’7 “Now, son of man, I am making you a watchman for the people of Israel. Therefore, listen to what I say and warn them for me.8 If I announce that some wicked people are sure to die and you fail to tell them to change their ways, then they will die in their sins, and I will hold you responsible for their deaths.9 But if you warn them to repent and they don’t repent, they will die in their sins, but you will have saved yourself. Ezek 33:6-9 (NLT)

    And if you had read stuff that I have posted you would’ve all ready known that I like to be in places where there are a lot of problems.

    So yes, I do feed off frustration; in a way.

    I like to go into a mess and clean it up; or more poetically put, go to a dark place and clarify it.

    I admit it.

    I admit it to myself and to God and He uses it. He uses the type of person that I am in a productive way. Thank God, i always hit my mark.

    He understands us, all we have to do is admit who we are. He’ll use what we are in a productive way.

    But if we confess our sins to Him, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness. 1 John 1:9

    Finally, I confessed all my sins to You and stopped trying to hide my guilt. I said to myself, “I will confess my rebellion to the LORD.” And You forgave me! All my guilt is gone. Psalms 32:5 (NLT)

    People who conceal their sins will not prosper, but if they confess and turn from them, they will receive mercy. Prov 28:13 (NLT)

    “If you were blind, you wouldn’t be guilty,” Jesus replied. “But you remain guilty because you claim you can see. John 9:41 (NLT)

  140. Peggy Miene

    Mickey

    Are you the same Mickey from Nov 7 and Nov 8, the one who helped me post that verse about Jesus being called a demon and the one who told me I’m full of myself?

    See HB Alleee, I do, admit the truth about myself; read my response; that one I didn’t give a “header” but it starts off with me saying quoting Mikey with “full of myself”

    Thanks for calling me a troll, you’re making me smile. The Word of God says that when people hate me, I’m storing up a grand treasure for myself in Heaven. And you helped me again by reminding me of these verses.

    “God blesses you when people mock you and persecute you and lie about you and say all sorts of evil things against you because you are my followers.12 Be happy about it! Be very glad! For a great reward awaits you in heaven. And remember, the ancient prophets were persecuted in the same way.
    Matt 5:11-12 (NLT)

    This next verse says that when people insult me, it shows that I have God’s blessing on me. I may not have ‘man’s’ approval or praise but I have God’s and He’s ultimately the one running this place.

    That’s why you guys are so mad at me, your jealous. You want what I have but you don’t want to go thru what I did to get it. You don’t want to admit, your sins to God.

    You’d rather compete with Him; which is pretty stupid.

    So be happy when you are insulted for being a Christian, for then the glorious Spirit of God rests upon you. 1 Peter 4:14 (NLT)

    But Mikey if you’re an atheist you have to admit that it’s within your belief system to believe you evolved from monkeys; or has that changed? Is it goo now?

    So yes you would be short of a human, look at the way the atheistic regime of the Nazis and how they treated people and if a fetus isn’t a baby then we can kill it (that’s short of human and that’s what atheist’s believe) and what about eugenics? It’s basically breeding humans and sterilizing other humans. It’s treating people like cattle; that gives a hint of short of human.

    wow this is awesome, Aaron’s come back.. you guys are giving me such a thrill..

  141. Peggy Miene

    Aaron,

    I love ranting, it’s what I’m good at, my dad used to rant, I learned it from the best. Now, because of God I get to direct my talents in a productive and meaningful way.

    Yes, God can do anything,

    But I don’t know everything because I’m not God, I’m just Peggy.

    I learned this in Culinary School: (Bob & I have this in common; we both went to The Art Institute)

    In culinary school I learned that when you put things on a plate, (presentation) it all has to look good but most importantly it also has to be functional.

    Perhaps this is why; trees don’t grow out of clouds.

    Perhaps, it’s not functional/ practical.

    Perhaps, God being Who He is, knows something that I don’t; in fact I’m sure that’s what it is.

    He knows a lot of stuff that I don’t know.

    God doesn’t send people to hell for being rude; He sends people to hell for being corrupt and for twisting justice.

    If there is no purpose to life why do you wake up in the morning? Why do you go to work, why do you eat?

    Life means something that is ALIVE; VIBRANT; LIVING; GROWING, EXPANDING, LEARNING.

    My purpose in life is to know God, the Creator of the Universe. Because that’s my purpose, I find myself interested in how life works, how things go, I want to understand everything as infinitely as the universe is.

    I’m a lot happier now that I’m a Christian; I used to be an atheist. I was very suicidal then and manic, really manic; not what you guys deem to be manic.

    No, I don’t feel important without God. He’s made my whole life meaningful.

    I understand why I am the way that I am completely.

    For instance, I’m argumentative; it’s perfect for situations like this, without God I’d just be arguing for no reason. Since He has saved me I argue to help others see the truth- that’s just one example.

    He turned a weakness of mine and uses it as a strength, I’m still me but His version of me; a much better version of me.

    It turns out that having a purpose in life is a byproduct of living a life; of being ALIVE.

    Purpose drives us, without purpose there is no reason to live.

    What happens when we die?

    We get to be with our Maker and learn even more about LIFE.

    When I get to heaven I’m going to know everything I’ve ever wanted to know.

    I’ll be everywhere all at the same time. I’ll understand why music moves me so much. I’ll be able to understand the depths of the ocean, and volcanoes. Sure I can look those things up and I do; and sure I can travel to those places and I have but it’s not the same as being a part of it.

    Geysers in Iceland… they are like water volcanoes. Stars and black holes.. hmmm, the sky, the sun rise… I could go on and on.

    Babies, I could spend time with the people I love and understand them fully and have them understand me fully with NO MISUNDERSTANDINGS ever!!!

    That will be the best part. To be with the ones I love and them be with me, to commune; to relate, to intertwine. To know and understand why I find them so interesting. What made them so special to me, to connect with them.

    Here it’s only a glimpse. Here we only see the potential of what things could be.

    Why do you think people fight so hard for issues, because they KNOW IT CAN BE BETTER.

    I wasn’t molested by my Grandfather; it was just an analogy on justice, an example. Not everything gets settled here on earth. And people have such a limited perspective here on earth. People make wrong judgments. The wrong people get blamed for the wrong stuff; while the real wrong doers get off free.

    There are people who ruin others people lives because they think its fun or because they want to get something from someone else, because they want to steal LIFE from others.

    If there were no justice, there really wouldn’t be a reason to live either. That’s called accounting. The books have to balance in the end.

    What about a mom who prefers to do drugs (this is just an analogy) and neglects her kids and her kids grow up lost with no direction or guidance and feel unloved. Isn’t that evil? The kids didn’t ask to be born, why should they have to suffer for their mother’s selfishness?

    That is real justice. When the books balance.

    Why do people have court systems? For the purpose of justice, to bring people to justice; where do you think that comes from? That sense of ‘justice’ that is in us?

    Why are people protesting now? They feel as if an INJUSTICE was done to them.

    Think about it.

    Atheists have terrible answers. How about atheist who are vegetarians because they feel sympathy for an animal but they are pro-choice? It’s inconsistent.

    For someone who cares little about what I think you sure spend a lot of time on me; see inconsistent.

    Perhaps that’s why I’m so cynical toward atheists; they don’t make any sense.

  142. Peggy Miene

    Bobby Jo,

    Now we’re going to mince words about the meaning of ‘mad’ and ‘serious’ for real?

    What’s so hard about admitting you look mad in that picture?

    Is it something from another planet?

    It really isn’t a big deal at all.

    Ok, fine, you look ‘serious’ not mad.

    If you can’t admit such a small thing, how do you deal with the big stuff?

    When people make a point against me, I just admit it and agree with them. I don’t mince words about stupid stuff.

    But thanks for showing up because you just proved my point to Hellbound Alleee
    Atheists (I’m assuming you’re an Atheist) can’t admit anything.

    Such a person has an unhealthy desire to quibble over the meaning of words. This stirs up arguments ending in jealousy, division, slander, and evil suspicions. These people always cause trouble. Their minds are corrupt, and they have turned their backs on the truth. 1 Tim 6:4-5 (NLT)

  143. Peggy Miene

    “be pure; take a tour; thru the sewer, don’t strain your brain, paint a train; you’ll be singing in the rain and don’t stop, to punk rock”- blondie.

    yep,, sounds like a good idea to me..

  144. Aaron

    Peggy

    I didnt ask if it was practical for trees to grow out of clouds, I asked if God could do it.
    You said God can do anything but then aid you dont know if he can make trees grow from clouds….quite a contradiction.

    You also said God sends people to hell…..im sorry but ive read the bibile, I know all about hell, any god who would send ANYONE to hell (let alone create hell!) is an evil, twisted God, no human being deserves that.
    Thankfully its all fiction.

    I love that you said this

    “If there is no purpose to life why do you wake up in the morning? Why do you go to work, why do you eat? ”

    Are you telling me without God you would simply sink into a depression and see no reason for life? How sad!

    Peggy I love my life, I’ve travelled this Earth, met some wonderful people, seen amazing and beautiful things!
    I love my family and friends and enjoy seeing them and spending time with them! I go to work so I can buy food, I eat so I can live, I live so I can LIVE!
    What is wrong with you that you need a God to enjoy your life?

    I also love to learn about the world we live in and the universe around us, I thrive on studying the wonders around me and guess what, I see God nowhere! And frankly he isnt needed! The universe is amazing and mysterious enough without a God!
    And the more I (we) understand life, the universe and everything, the more we realise we can understand it without God, and no God actually makes alot more sense!
    The concept of a God just raises far more impossible questions than it answers, and on top of that prevents you from discovering the true wonders in this world, this universe and this life!

    There are some very depressing and deeply troubleing quotes I will take from you Peggy and seriously I think you need help, here they are:

    1. “My purpose in life is to know God, the Creator of the Universe. Because that’s my purpose, I find myself interested in how life works, how things go, I want to understand everything as infinitely as the universe is.”

    I think this is sad, that without God you have no purpose, I have sympathy for you, if you really want to understand everything and learn how life works and how things go, forget about God and visit a museum, pick up a book, take a few classes, google is your friend.

    2. “I’m a lot happier now that I’m a Christian; I used to be an atheist. I was very suicidal then and manic, really manic; not what you guys deem to be manic.”

    This is frightning Peggy you have some real mental issues that need addressing, I would suggest you need to resolve these things, seek help, seriously.

    3.”No, I don’t feel important without God. He’s made my whole life meaningful. ”

    An honest statement, but a depressing one, what a shame you cant see how important you are, how lucky you are to be alive, and how meaningful your life is, not only to yourself but to your loved ones, your family.
    It is disturbing that so many people feel like you do, their self-esteem crushed by their faith in this God…..I feel for you.

    Alot of the rest of what you said was quite incoherent preacher style rants and fairy tale wishes about living forever in paradise and “being everywhere” and becoming a geyser in Iceland or something, what ever that means
    I feel addressing these would serve no other purpose as to bring myself down to a childish level so I will move on.

    Just out of interest are you even aware that our misunderstanding of eachother is a good thing, its how we learn and grow and it helps us to realise that our world view is not the only world view.
    You say when you die and go to heaven you will understand everyone, does this include Muslims? Will you understand their love for the prophet Mohummad? Or will you just be happy that they are all being eternally tortured in hell?

    I agree, there has to be justice, but man is perfectly capable of justice without God, and Gods justice (heaven, hell, plagues, floods, sacrifice etc) is tyrannical and meglomanical and not real justice at all….it is pure evil, plain and simple.

    As I already said Athiests have perfectly suitable answers, you just dont like them, thats your problem, not ours.
    Im not a vegetarian, infact there is no Athiest “code” we are all completly different and have different views on everything (more or less).
    The only thing every Athiest agrees on is a lack of belief in a God, your God or any other.
    Thats why we seem inconsistant to you…because we are….we are not some organised group as you think we are….again your view of us comes from lack of understanding.

    I do not care at all what you think about me, you are a stranger on the internet, I am merely in a blog/discussion with you and trying to correct your incorrect views.
    I know I wont change your mind, I dont care, but at least I can try to open your eyes just a little bit, make you think a little bit, as you so often claim that you can.

    We dont make any sense to you because you dont understand us, maybe if you learnt about us, and had an open mind, and stopped sealing off your brain to new ideas, maybe then we would make sense.

    Again though this is your lack of understanding, not us “not making any sense”
    One day you may realise this…..though I doubt it

    Aaron

  145. Bobbi Jo

    wow Peggy lol calm down. You are over-analyzing everything and clearly are extremely defensive for some reason. I haven’t even had the time to read all of these comments you have posted in this comment section because its EXCESSIVE and ridiculous. You must have a lot of time of your hands. I do not consider myself an atheist either Peggy. So you haven’t proven anything. And I cope and deal with “big stuff” quite healthfully. Thankfully I have had a very fortunate and happy life. Thanks for the concern Peggy, but my coping skills are very healthy.

  146. Aaron

    Sorry Peggy just have to add/ask.

    Do you have cynical view of everything you dont understand? Doesnt sound very healthy, or like a good platform for learning and understanding.

    Aaron

  147. Steven Bentley

    Peggy, I asked you how do you think jesus and christianity got to america, and you said it was my opinion, with that answer…you’re just plain stupid!

    And you keep quoting scripture that goat herders wrote down, but yet you have not quoted anything written down by your bible god or jesus, yet you believe the bible is true, by that you’re just plain stupid!

    Christians are just plainly stupid!!!

  148. Peggy Miene

    Steve,
    Actually Steve, scroll up to Nov 17th

    This is a quote from me:
    “The only things that you wrote that would have a source are the Bible getting over here on a boat and it being inspired.” –Peggy Miene

    If I’m plain stupid then it should be easy for you to provide sources proving me stupid. Go for it. If not then you calling me stupid isn’t backed up by anything. It’s an opinion.

  149. Peggy Miene

    Bobby jo,
    I realized something when I went to bed last night the realization just clicked.
    On Nov 7th Amichai Jesurun Schneller wrote this:

    “Her boobs are kinda weird looking…she has that Lorena Bobbett look…I think JOY is a DUDE.
    (an ugly dude with malformed boob implants..Ew.)
    I am A.J.
    and I approve this message.” – Amichai Jesurun Schneller

    I was wondering where he had seen a picture of me; I just assumed that he saw me on facebook but then I thought, “that can’t be, he doesn’t have access to my pictures” but now it makes sense.

    He thinks that picture of you next to the Newfoundjoy Hatemail is me.

    Bobby, read my response to him, maybe it sounds defensive; to you. Maybe you are calling me defensive to cover up your defensiveness. Maybe you’re using a smoke screen.

    To me; my response to him sounds easy going, real, and healthy.

    Actually my response to him is bona fide real; those are my real thoughts. I think I handled it well.

    See I can admit stuff, why should I hide? There’s nothing to hide when I know that God my Judge, has seen it all.

    Why should I be afraid of people? What can people do to me; when God accepts me?

    That’s not defensive at all. Defensive means putting up a wall; a front. Like posting a ‘serious’ picture to go with your ‘serious’ comment. To present an image right?

    I don’t present images or walls or fronts. What you read is what you get.

    I let my walls fall down. I’m honest.

    But again, I’ve been talking lately about people being able to admit stuff and telling the truth.
    God is the only One Who knows that I am telling the truth. And that’s all the matters. Isn’t it?

  150. Peggy Miene

    Aaron,

    could you be more specific?
    beside the athiest thing, what am i being cynical about?

    I think i have more life in me than all of you do put together. I’ve got more spunk and energy and meaning.

    How many are there of you compared to one little crazy me and you guys can’t drive me out of here.

    Why do you think that is?

    I’ve turned this place (here on the internet) into my living room; my own personal living room. I play tunes when ever i want..i get to do what i love, debate all day, i write what ever i want..i practice all my thoughts out here; perfect my thinking.

    you guys are all like my sparring partners, helping me to perfect my skills. You guys are going to make me a precision instrument. I’m going to sharp as a knife by the time i’m finished here. You guys are being used by God to make me stronger and better and people can read it a learn something.. maybe it’s wasted on you but i’ve said this so many times before. A lot of things are wasted on wasteful people. Seize the day, the moment, use everything..

    yep, that sounds cynical to me..

    If that’s cynical then I’m staying there. This is fun…

  151. Bobbi Jo

    clearly Amichai Jesurun Schneller is also delusional. My breasts are perfect. My face and body is as feminine as you can get. He can only dream about being with a woman who looks like me. Poor guy.

  152. Peggy Miene

    this one’s a good one for doing house work; today I’m changing out my curtains for the holiday season; now all i have to do is tackle that turkey- hmm, must make turkey juicy,,,hmmm… anyways…enjoy.

    I’m doing it to the beat of this drum beat..

    “Are ready? hey, are you for this? are you hanging on the edge of your seat? another one down; another one bites the dust; gonna get you too”-Queen

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNXSBoDRSx8

  153. Peggy Miene

    Bobby jo,

    don’t worry Bobby, just put some music on and dance.. it’s vacation time.. time to relax, kick back, catch up on some books.. a little piece of heaven here on earth.. time to rest.

  154. Peggy Miene

    Danny,
    God is the most sensual, passionate Being I’ve ever met..so no, He doesn’t use condoms; that would obstruct the process.

    “never for money; only for love” – Talking Heads.,

    Some people might think it’s strange for me to even answer a question like that but, I ask God about everything, from the most innocent question to the most degenerate. Why should act as if He didn’t know me.

    He’s the most free, I’m truly an individual. Living life to the fullest extent. Don’t believe the lies people have made up about Him; they aren’t true.

    Ask Him anything you want. If you’re really looking for the answers He will answer them.

    And it’s a clean life above all.. it’s the best of everything: NO DROSS. Just pure…

    “Feet on the ground; head in the clouds; its ok, I know nothing’s wrong.” –Talking Heads

  155. Peggy Miene

    I always have typos; “Why should I act as if He didn’t know me?”

    You have turned my mourning into joyful dancing.
    You have taken away my clothes of mourning and clothed me with joy,
    Psalms 30:11 (NLT)

    And David danced before the Lord with all his might, wearing a priestly garment.
    2 Sam 6:14 (NLT)

    But if you don’t believe Me when I tell you about earthly things, how can you possibly believe if I tell you about heavenly things? John 3:12

    Think about the things of heaven, not the things of earth. Colossians 3:2

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pATXKjknl_Q

  156. Peggy Miene

    Praise the Lord!

    Praise God in His sanctuary; praise Him in His mighty heaven!

    Praise Him for His mighty works; praise His unequaled greatness!
    Praise Him with a blast of the ram’s horn; praise Him with the lyre and harp!
    Praise Him with the tambourine and dancing; praise Him with strings and flutes!
    Praise Him with a clash of cymbals; praise Him with loud clanging cymbals.
    Let everything that breathes sing praises to the Lord!
    Praise the Lord!
    Psalms 150:1-6 (NLT)

    And remember, the Lord’s patience gives people time to be saved. This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him— speaking of these things in all of his letters.
    Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction.
    2 Peter 3:15-16 (NLT)

  157. Peggy Miene

    danny,

    here is the word masturbation defined:

    mas·tur·ba·tion
    Excitation of one’s own or another’s genital organs, usually to orgasm, by manual contact or means other than sexual intercourse.

    i do think that thinking and conversing is a form of intercourse..

    let’s look up intercourse:

    in·ter·course (ntr-kôrs, -krs)
    n.
    1. Dealings or communications between persons or groups.
    2. Sexual intercourse.

    “Come now, let us reason together,” says the LORD. “Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool. Isaiah 1:18 NIV

  158. Peggy Miene

    danny

    there is the phrase mental masturbation

    Aaron’s question yesterday got me thinking of this Christian song; the song is about what he (the song writer) thinks it will be like in Heaven.

    one of the lines says something like, “when i get to Heaven I’m going to see what it’s like to ride a rain drop”

    It’s a visual image for me but one that i totally relate to; i love the rain, and it sounds like a fun thing to do. Ride a rain drop all the way down from the height of a cloud.

    can you imagine how a seed germinates? yes science can record a seed dieing (opening) in the soil, and turning into a plant (whatever) but they still don’t really know/ understand how it happens..

    these are things i think about… sex is nice (and i think a precursor/ a picture of the real thing) but; it’s so temporary.. i want something that will last… i guess that’s just me; my aesthetic; it;s what i think is beautiful.

    make fun if you will; but that’s one of those things that no one will ever be able to take away from me..

  159. Peggy Miene

    danny,

    also, i like to dance, and i imagine that when i get to heaven i will be like the element mercury.

    it’s so liquid. and so unlike what i am here on earth… I’m chubby and heavy.. but in heaven i will be able to dance the way i feel the music.. being here on earth is only a tiny little picture of the real thing..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31CE2BYicyU

  160. Peggy Miene

    danny, anyone

    why do you think we have dreams and aspirations?

    where do you think they come from???

    I don’t know about you , but even with the best opprotunites in life; i doubt i could reach all of my dreams here on earth.. i know i was made for more than what this place can offer or what i can realize here.. what i can physically do is only a fraction of what i really want to do..

  161. Peggy Miene

    and there’s no drug that can make that happen, everything here is only temporary; just glimpses, little pictures..

    i’m holding out for the real thing.. my reward is with the Lord..

  162. Peggy Miene

    Contrary to popular belief God is the One Who created sex.

    Find yourself a good spouse and look for them based on the right priorities and test it out. Sex is much better that way. If you’re both open to it, you have the time to explore; you don’t need anything else. None of the porn or toys. With God anything is possible.. practice makes perfect. Like I said, I think sex is a like a picture of something; a taste of the real thing in Heaven. Plato had a theory about this thing he called forms.. this is the best way for me to describe it.
    there must be a true (i don’t know what word to use but the true thing) to match this represention this form that we have here on earth… not necassraily physical.. but intercourse; communion.. becoming one.. intertwineing.. sounds crazy??? But some of the most craziest thoughts turned out to be true..

    But because there is so much sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman should have her own husband.3 The husband should fulfill his wife’s sexual needs, and the wife should fulfill her husband’s needs.4 The wife gives authority over her body to her husband, and the husband gives authority over his body to his wife.5 Do not deprive each other of sexual relations, unless you both agree to refrain from sexual intimacy for a limited time so you can give yourselves more completely to prayer. 1 Cor 7:2-5 (NLT)

  163. Aaron

    Peggy

    I actually managed to find your response to me, man you need to control yourself, ive only read the first post, there is no way in hell i have the time or effort to read the rest.

    Its nice to see that you’ve ignored everything on my post and havnt answered any of my questions, dont worry its a typical Christian way to behave, I assume its your way of avoiding reality, go back and read my post again (if you can find it amongst the mess of replies you have added) and you may see what I mean.

    I will disect your post bit by bit, and before I go on I see you ignored my plea for you to seek professional help re: Your manic insanity you admitted to having, Im being sincere if you really did feel that way whilst you were an Athiest you have deeper issues that need addressing, for your own good seek help:

    “could you be more specific?
    beside the athiest thing, what am i being cynical about?”

    Your entire view on Athiesm is cynical, you even admitted this?! I dont understand why you would ask this question.

    “I think i have more life in me than all of you do put together. I’ve got more spunk and energy and meaning.”

    How can you possibly claim this, you dont know any of us, we are stangers on the internet, I can assure you I have a full and enjoyable life, I have a close family who I love and who love me, close friends I share and enjoy my time with, I love my job and have travelld the world, ive visited over 30 countries on all continents except Africa and Antarctica, I’ve lived in 4 countries and currently live in NZ (in my view a paradise).
    Ive been scuba diving, bunjy jumping, skydiving, rock climbing, abesiling, free diving, surfing, snowboarding, fishing, jumped off buildings, climbed mountains, riding bikes down a volcano, ive been through rainforests, tundra, deserts and cities, ive volounteered to help children and animals in 3rd world countries, and im only 27 years old, how can you possibly claim that im not full of life?

    2nd I would argue yes we are all more full of life, you openly admitted that your life is meaningless and you feel un-important without God
    This is horribly depressing and shows how low your self esteem is and how much you place in your imaginary friend, your life is nothing without your God, that speaks volumes about how little you see yourself, its sad really I sympathise.

    “How many are there of you compared to one little crazy me and you guys can’t drive me out of here.”

    We’re not trying to get rid of you?! (Or at least im not anyway)Why would you think this?!

    “I’ve turned this place (here on the internet) into my living room; my own personal living room. I play tunes when ever i want..i get to do what i love, debate all day, i write what ever i want..i practice all my thoughts out here; perfect my thinking.”

    Again this only highlights the sorry (and cynical) state your life is in, and you have your God to thank for this.

    “you guys are all like my sparring partners, helping me to perfect my skills. You guys are going to make me a precision instrument. I’m going to sharp as a knife by the time i’m finished here. You guys are being used by God to make me stronger and better and people can read it a learn something.. maybe it’s wasted on you but i’ve said this so many times before. A lot of things are wasted on wasteful people. Seize the day, the moment, use everything..”

    This just sounds creepy and disturbing and a bit cult-like, it makes you sound insane and I dont really understand what point you are trying to make.

    Now would you please refer to my first post and actually respond to my comments and answer my questions, or are you simply again going to ignore everything ive said and blindly gloss over it all then continue with another brainwashed Christian rant(s)……I think I know what to expect…..

    Aaron

  164. Peggy Miene

    aaron,

    then don’t read them, they (the posts) aren’t just for you.. I don’t really expect you guys to answer… you guys take this so seriously… enjoy your life… if you don’t believe in God, then you don’t believe in Him..

    i write for people who can understand; if you don’t understand then you don’t, I only work off you guys…get ideas off of you guys.. you totally don’t understand what i’m doing; then let it be..

  165. Aaron

    I would like to add as a message to all that the clarity and intelligence displayed on the Athiest side of the fence, in comparrison to the incomprehensible, insane ramblings of “Peggy Miene” would be entertaining from an outsider perspective and highlight what religion can do to your brain……its a shame more people wont see this comment page.

  166. Peggy Miene

    Aaron
    your first post was on Nov 18th
    I answered that
    Then you made fun of me for a while
    Then your next real question was on Nov 20 then you repeated it on Nov 21
    I answered that
    You said it yourself, (on Nov 20) that you don’t read what I post so what difference does it make. Go enjoy your life and leave us crazies alone.

  167. Aaron

    Peggy

    So basically no you dont have any comment or answers for me, no your not even going to try and use your ability to think about what I have said, use the ability to think that you were once so proud of, and no your not going to absorb any of my posts or take in what I have said……and I dont even get a rant!

    Remarkable

    Aaron

  168. Aaron

    Peggy

    I do read the posts left for me, the rest I ignore because there are far too many of them.
    If you actually read my posts there are lots of intriguing issues for you to ponder and a few questions for you to answer.
    If you cant see this you are either blindly glossing over them (as Christians tend to do) or just arent reading my posts.
    Go back and try again

    Aaron

  169. Peggy Miene

    Aaron,

    i’m sorry; i found it, you must have written it earlier, it’s the one right above Bobby Jo’s,

    I really didn’t see it? Is that the one your talking about? Is it the question you want me to answer the question about Muslims?

    (there are going to be typos)

    If so, i’ll say that God judges people according to what they know. This question has been asked in regards to tribal people and people who have died before the message of God coud get to them.

    Muslims, don’t believe in the same God Judeo- Christians do..

    if you read the accounts of Muhammed; and if you follow the course of his ministry and of course if you know the Bible well; you’ll notice that the expericnecs that Muhammed describes are very different than the ones described in the Bible made by His prophets.

    I don’t know if you know this but there are alot of Muslims converting lately, they’ve been saying that they’ve had revelations of God. It’s actually like a wave. maybe tomorrow when i have more time i’ll go into it more…

    as far as people in heaven being happy while there are people in hell. I answered that one a long time ago but not to you; in one of Bob’s ones.

    as far as me getting help; i’ve answerd that one too.. on Nov 16 addressed to Steve; i talk about Carl Jung

    and yes i totally agree about the misunderstanding thing, friction/ opposistion creates learning.. that why I’m here..

    one minute you say i sound cult like and then it turns out the you agree with me.. that’s what i mean by the whole ‘sparring thing’

    anyways..anything else that i missed Mr. Aaron…???

  170. Peggy Miene

    aaron,

    i think it’s really nice that you’re concerned about me, and even with all the mocking, i can hear the sympathy you have for me, (i’m not being sarcastic)

    but I’m fine, really… to you i sound depressed, but i’m not.. there’s no way i can make you understand.. you actually sound like a really nice guy.. besides all the mocking i mean.. but i get it..i understand; be happy… it’s ok.. nothing is wrong.. i hope you have a great day in NZ, do something fun for me..

  171. Peggy Miene

    aaron

    maybe you’ll understand if i explain it this way.

    you wrote about all the activities you’ve done. I bet when you planned an outing you would get really excited about it and you couldn’t wait to go do it.

    this is what it feels like, i feel like, i’m waiting to go on this awesome trip, I enjoy everything that’s here, my family, conversing etc, but in the back of my head i know that there is this trip i’ve got planned and i’ve got my eyes set on it. I can’t wait to go and do this exciting thing.

  172. Aaron

    Peggy

    Nice to see you’re trying, there are a few more things I pointed out and asked etc but i have work in 2 hours and dont really feel like pointing them out to you.
    You did manage to find the most important ones however so ill just concede and carry on.

    You still didnt address that any God who would create the concept of hell, let alone send people to it, is pure evil, no human being (no not even Hitler, evil and vile as he was) deserves nothing but agonising torture for ETERNITY!.
    If God can do anything (as Christians believe) then logically he has the power to save anyone from hell, regardless of faith (or lack there of).
    Hes the one who made the rules about who goes to hell, surely he has the power to change them without the silly “accept Jesus” loophole.
    But no, he sits there while Muslims, Buddists, Athiests scream for mercy and realise and ignores their pleas because they didnt use the loophole of accepting Jesus.
    And if God cant let not Christians into heaven he is not omnipotent, and cant do everything….although as he made the rules (and entire universe) in the first place I would assume he has the power to change things.
    You God sounds awful….you failed to address this.

    I understand that Muslims and Christians are different (obviously) would it suprise you to know I have also read the Koran.
    My question to you though was would you understand a Muslims love for the prophet Mohummad once you ascend to heaven and understand “everything”?
    So i’ll ask you again, once in heaven, will you understand a Muslims love for the prophet Muhommad?

    Im not sure who told you about Muslims converting, probably a preacher who needs to get his facts straight, obviously there are Muslim converts to Christianity, just as there are Muslim converts to Hinduism and Buddism.
    But Peggy, Islam is the fastest growing religion on the planet, growing at a much faster rate than any other including Christianity.
    There are far more Christians converting to Islam than the other way around, did your preacher or Christian website neglect to mention that to you?

    However the amount of followers a religion has or is gaining says nothing about its authenticity.

    You do quite frequently sound like a brainwashed cult member, and apart from “live your life” and “enjoy yourself” and “be happy” etc (which I dont believe you are really doing) I dont see where I have ever agreed with you, please point out which parts I agreed with you.

    I conced I will never understand how you feel your life is full and happy while you openly admit that without God it would mean nothing and you would be miserable.
    Frankly I dont want to understand this, the fact you cant even see what this religion is doing to you only makes it even more depressing and horrific and makes you seem even more brainwashed and cult-like.

    The way you’ve spoke about your life being exciting aka: waiting to do these wonderful things doesnt sound to appealing to me, it sounds as if your on the edge of your seat, constantly waiting for something exciting that never comes.
    Unless you mean heaven, which essentially means you dont enjoy your life and your just waiting to die so you can be with God.

    Either scenario sounds awful.

    I have lots of fun in NZ, its why i moved here (although today I have work and its raining, and i work outdoors, oh well), but I still enjoy comming on this website.
    Believe it or not im a fast typer and an even faster reader (reading consequently is another thing I love to do) so I only spend a maximum of about 20 mins on this site, though I love this hillarious website I could easily spend longer.
    It doesnt exactly cut into my day, and 20 mins is all I need.

    If I have the time (or the effort) I will point out the other things you missed (I feel its not your fault, just your Christian brain refusing to notice points and refusing to accept these questions) however I fear I will probably have my hands full with a response(s) to this post

    Aaron

  173. Aaron

    Peggy

    An addition re: Muslims.

    I notice you said they do not worship the Judeo-Christian God. im not sure where you sre getting your information from but Muslims to indeed worship the same God, they call him by a different name (Allah) but believe me it is the same God, the God of Abraham.
    Are you aware that the Muslim celebration (feast) of Eid-ul-Adha is a celebrationo of Abrahams willingness to sacrifice his son Issac to God, not something worthy of celebration in my opinion but its a story the 3 faiths share.

    And are you also aware that Muslims do infact love Jesus and prasie his name, they merely believe him to be a holy prophet, not the messiah or the supernatural son of God.

    The Korans interpretation of events is obviously different but different editions of the bible (KJV and NLV for instance) change, not as drastically ofcourse but it is a different text afterall.

    Aaron

  174. Peggy Miene

    Aaron- (remember you don’t have to answer back.. you can do whatever you want)

    Oh Aaron, my dear..
    Ok, here I go.

    You agreed with me on Nov 22nd when you said this:
    “Just out of interest are you even aware that our misunderstanding of eachother is a good thing, its how we learn and grow and it helps us to realise that our world view is not the only world view.” -Aaron

    It’s the 3rd paragraph located after your 3rd point:
    It’s the same as me saying you guys are like my sparring partners because you guys help me practice putting my beliefs into words and articulating them and learning not to be intimidated n matter how, rude a person is or how much they make fun of me.
    Here on earth, people need to debate; to separate truth from falsehood.

    In Heaven everyone will be in agreement.

    You say that God is pure evil because He created hell; a place of punishment for all eternity. If God is evil for creating hell then people are evil for sending people who break the law to jail.
    Aren’t there people in jail serving life sentences?

    I’m assuming you mean “How can God send innocent people to hell, who lived a ‘good’ life and were good to others?”

    How do you know what is good?

    Who is the judge of good?

    We all have different definitions of what good is.

    We all have different perspectives; we all come from different walks of life and have had different experiences.

    God can do anything but if He made everyone love Him, people would be robots and not people who freely chose Him.

    Love can only be love if someone chooses to love you freely.

    (I’m assuming you’re a man)This is an example:
    You wouldn’t want to keep a girl with you against her will would you?
    Of course not, you would want a girl who stays with you out of love; not because you make her stay with you. Any girl would resent being kept against her will and would fight teeth and nail to escape.

    That’s why God gave us free will. That’s why God left the tree of good and evil and He told Adam and Eve, not to touch it or they would die.

    He gave them a choice with consequences, but that’s freedom too.

    I could say more about this; but you’ll just say it’s all fairy tale stuff.

    God made hell for satan and the fallen angels. Satan is a warlock; one who starts war. Treason.
    God did not create hell for people, but people who follow after satan, go to hell.

    How do people follow after satan? They follow in his footsteps, they lie, they repress the truth, they seek after their own selfish wants, they are prideful, they compete with God to try to take away His kingdom, what is His.

    Since you read the Koran then you know that Muhammad, tells the story of how he was first called by who claims was the Archangel Gabriel. But if you notice his telling of the story, Muhammed was forced by the ‘angel’
    This is from “The whole story written in Bukhari” volume 9, book 87, Hadith number 111”
    The angel came to him in it and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, “I do not know how to read.” (The Prophet added), “The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it anymore. He then released me and again asked me to read, and I replied, “I do not know how to read,” whereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it anymore. He then released me and asked me again to read, but again I replied, “I do not know how to read (or, what shall I read?).” Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me and then released me and said, “Read: In the Name of your Lord, Who has created (all that exists). Has created man from a clot. Read and Your Lord is Most Generous…up to….. ..that which he knew not.” (96.15) –end of quote

    But if you compare that to the times Gabriel appeared to the people in the Bible, he didn’t force them:
    Here’s a small bit; if you want look up the whole thing.
    And I heard a human voice calling out from the Ulai River, “Gabriel, tell this man the meaning of his vision.”17 As Gabriel approached the place where I was standing, I became so terrified that I fell with my face to the ground. “Son of man,” he said, “you must understand that the events you have seen in your vision relate to the time of the end.”18 While he was speaking, I fainted and lay there with my face to the ground. But Gabriel roused me with a touch and helped me to my feet. Dan 8:16-18 (NLT) –end of quote

    These are other verses that you can look if you want about the archangel Gabriel:

    Luke 1:13, 19
    Luke 1:26-33
    John 1:12
    Galatians 1:8

    Now, we have to see what type of message this “Gabriel” was passing on.
    “The Christians call Christ the son of Allah… Allah’s curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the Truth!”(Sure 9:30).

    When Gabriel appeared to Mary in verse Luke 1:35, he told her that Jesus “will be called the Son of the Most High.” Now that same angel reveals himself to our new prophet and tells him that “Allah’s curse be on them, those who call Christ the son of Allah.” It seems that either the angel Gabriel was getting old in age and now was cursing himself, or simply that the angel Gabriel did not make this visitation.

    and this is about an Iranian Pastor who converted to Christianity but is being forced to convert to Islam even though he says he never felt like a muslim. this is one example i could give you more but; it’s already getting long; also I’m using a secular source- yahoo.

    http://news.yahoo.com/iran-court-likely-revoke-pastors-death-sentence-lawyer-165611669.html

    Enough of that; next topic:
    I wasn’t being sarcastic when I said have fun in NZ. I meant it. I believed you when you said you think it’s paradise- that a great thing; I wanted you to have a great, outstanding day.

    On to a new topic:
    my life is me seating on the edge of my seat waiting for something exciting to happen all the time and something exciting always happens; everyday is a new day.
    I have a theory, it goes like this “forever starts now” You are totally going to make fun of me but heaven has already started and it’s just going to continue.
    That’s putting it in a nutshell; I could say more about it but you won’t understand.

    Aaron, I was an atheist already. For me to see things your way would be like going backwards.
    If a mind has been expanded to include a new thought that it never had before; how can it go back to its original form?

    I grew up catholic then as a kid up until about 19 I was an atheist. I was on a plane coming back from a vacation and I just started seeing things in a whole new way, I always say that I was waking up, all these experiences started happening. At about 20, I met this guy who introduced me to Buddhism I did that for a while, I studied it deeply, but it’s not the way.

    Aaron, you don’t want to understand:
    “Frankly I dont want to understand this, the fact you cant even see what this religion is doing to you only makes it even more depressing and horrific and makes you seem even more brainwashed and cult-like.” –Aaron.

    So that’s why you don’t understand; because you don’t want to.

    Like I said, I’m writing for those who understand. if someone comes to oppose me then i use it to be able to put out more info; for the benefit of those who understand; you don’t understand what i’m doing here.

    There was a time when I didn’t understand, and God sent people into me life to show me and help me. They didn’t force me, or make fun of me or try to make me see; they just showed up when I was at my most desperate. If you’ve never been desperate then you are one of the lucky ones.

    If you don’t want to see then don’t… you came into my path, remember.. you started talking to me and making fun of me. If your life is so much better than mine, and I’m crazy then why are you here to make fun of me?

    If I’m the one who is crazy, doesn’t that explain why I’m here? But if you aren’t crazy then why are you here spending your 20 minutes on this site and maybe 7 out of that 20 on me?

    Aaron, I’m not going to change my mind and I don’t feel like I am wasting my life at all. I feel like I am FINALLY LIVING ME LIFE.

    And you say; that I need to “control myself” why? What’s going to happen if I don’t? Is someone going to die?
    And how do you know that I’m not in control of myself?
    And why do we all have to act the same?
    If you deem me as being ‘out of control’ am I a danger to you?
    We’re on the internet.
    Why can’t I post 15 posts one right after the other for anyone who wants to read them? What harm is it doing to you?

    I’m just a crazy girl with nothing better to do than to do what I love. Write and think about God and tell people how He saved me.. if He’s imaginary than what harm am I doing to you?
    I don’t understand why people are trying to put me into this box to make me conform to them. I want to be free. I want to be myself.

  175. Peggy Miene

    aaron,

    forgive my typos, i sound like a pirate in some of those lines..

    for some reason i wrote ‘me’ instead of ‘my’… you know how it is; writing fast and all..

  176. Peggy Miene

    aaron,
    i don’t know if i made it clear but I’m implying that the ‘being’ that Mohammed was visited by was a demon.

    If you read what i wrote to Steve on Nov 16, about Carl Jung (a psychologist) then you’ll see that even this man of ‘science’ makes claims to having an “entity guiding his steps/ ideas/ writings”

    my point is that many people thru history have made claims to being ‘inspired’ but they were being ‘inspired’ by demonic forces. These aren’t things that we Christians pull out of the sky; we read what the writers wrote about their own experinces and then compare them to other people’s experinces; namely those of the Bible and what they wrote about.

    so Muslims and Judeo- Christians do not believe in the same God at all.

    I have sources where you can read Carl Jung saying this about himself which I didn’t post to steve, that I can show you if you’d like.

    If you don’t know who Carl Jung is he is a contemporary of Sigmund Freud and one of the fathers of psychology. Carl Jung is who we can thank for concepts such as “introvert, extrovert, the ego, the super ego” and lots more; he’s even the ‘creator’ of Alcoholics Anonymous/ the twelve step program.

    You can also read what I wrote to steve,

    I know the world of Psychiatry pretty well; Also there you’ll read about some of my experiences with psychiatry. It’s not the way; it can’t help a person in any real way.

    Jesus saved me. Jesus is the truth. I’ve tried and tested a lot of different world views and Jesus is real.

    I probably spelled a lot wrong.

  177. newfoundjoy1

    Apostate Lois qoutes me (Peggy) and then writes-

    “After a while of trying to convince someone you love so much about God and His justice and they still don’t listen, the only option for that person is to pray for them; silently pray for them when no one is around and when no one can see, cry and pray and hope someone else can tell them, or make it clear to them somehow.”

    Why is all this begging and pleading and whining to God even necessary? Surely, you should be able to pray just ONCE, and God will hear your prayer and answer it. This is confirmed by the following alleged words of Jesus:

    Mark 11:24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

    John 15:7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

    If God wants Bob, or anyone else, to be saved, then he will do it, and Christians should not need to nag him constantly about it. If they do, it is proof that they do not really trust God to do the right thing. Or is God a bit hard of hearing in his old age?

  178. Peggy Miene

    Aaron, i don’t know if you know this but there are like three different was to view these posts.

    so it can get kind of confusing.

    the way i always go is by clicking the “leave a comment” link and then it takes me to the last post and most times i sroll up to see whats new..

    that’s how i do it; but i am learning to navigate thru this and i know that there are “recent comments” that a person can click on to view the recent comments..

    and then there is the “WordPress” site that this site works off of and then the is the “RSS” way too..

    so keep that in mind; alot can get lost in translation that way; these are the ‘misunderstanding’ i won’t have in heaven.

    all this cluter will be gone; think about it; ponder on that for a second; as i have pondered on what you’ve offered..

  179. Aaron

    Peggy

    Ok

    “You agreed with me on Nov 22nd when you said this:
    “Just out of interest are you even aware that our misunderstanding of eachother is a good thing, its how we learn and grow and it helps us to realise that our world view is not the only world view.” -Aaron”

    Er…no…now your not even aware of your onwn posts, this was in response to you wishing to get along with everyone without misunderstandings, you dont want misunderstandings and i quote

    “Babies, I could spend time with the people I love and understand them fully and have them understand me fully with NO MISUNDERSTANDINGS ever!!!

    That will be the best part. To be with the ones I love and them be with me, to commune; to relate, to intertwine. To know and understand why I find them so interesting. What made them so special to me, to connect with them.”

    I am suggesting that the misunderstandings are a good thing and help us learn, even in realation to babies.
    Your so mixed up in your rants you dont even realise your own points of view!!

    The rest of what I apparantly agreed with you on was me saying that you sounded insane…..did you even read my posts?!

    moving on..

    “You say that God is pure evil because He created hell; a place of punishment for all eternity. If God is evil for creating hell then people are evil for sending people who break the law to jail.
    Aren’t there people in jail serving life sentences? ”

    What the hell? No Peggy again please read my posts, hell is torture and punishment for ETERNITY!!! no let up! often for simply not accepting Jesus as a savior, prisoners have trials, sentencing that fit the crimes and a chance to defend themselves in court, we are obviously more just than your God.
    Even a life sentence doesnt last for eternity Peggy! And you see what happens to the a prison guard in a western prison who tortures an inmate…..
    If you had a child that didnt love you would you lock them in the basement and torture them until they died?

    “God can do anything but if He made everyone love Him, people would be robots and not people who freely chose Him. ”

    However if we dont love him, we are tortured for eternity….some love! I wouldnt even wish this on my worst enemy! And God has the power to change all this, yet he doesnt!

    “(I’m assuming you’re a man)This is an example:
    You wouldn’t want to keep a girl with you against her will would you?
    Of course not, you would want a girl who stays with you out of love; not because you make her stay with you. Any girl would resent being kept against her will and would fight teeth and nail to escape. ”

    Isnt this essentially what God is doing?! Love me or i’ll send you to hell! I fail to see a difference.

    “He gave them a choice with consequences, but that’s freedom too.”

    So if a mugger puts a gun to your back and says “You have the choice to give me your purse, but if you dont ill shoot you” would you then say that you gave him your purse out of your own free will?

    This is the “free choice or hell” scenario you so readily (and blindly) accept

    and amazingly! You still havnt addressed how a God who has the power to not set up this scenario, and yet did, could not be evil
    God created hell Peggy he set these standards he made these rules even though he didnt have to!!
    And you worship this evil, meglomanical being without seeing how horrible a situation this is!!

    “I could say more about this; but you’ll just say it’s all fairy tale stuff.”

    Because it is fairy tale stuff, its clearly fiction, your brain just wont let you realise this

    Im not sure why you quoted Mohummads interaction with Gabriel to me? What point are you making?

    “and this is about an Iranian Pastor who converted to Christianity but is being forced to convert to Islam even though he says he never felt like a muslim. this is one example i could give you more but; it’s already getting long; also I’m using a secular source- yahoo. ”

    Yes well done you found one Iranian Christian convert from Islam bravo, I already told you im well aware many Muslims have converted to Christianity, aswell as Hinduism, Buddism and more!
    My point (which is fact by the way) is that more Christians have converted to Islam, not the other way around.
    And the point is mute because it doesnt matter how many members a faith has or how fast it is growing it does not make it accurate.

    Im not suprised you totally glossed over these points (again).

    “Aaron, I was an atheist already. For me to see things your way would be like going backwards.
    If a mind has been expanded to include a new thought that it never had before; how can it go back to its original form?”

    Ok were you a Christian before you were an Athiest?
    If no I still dont see what point you are making here? Surely you should want truth no matter what direction you take to it? None of what you said has any effect on whether you are right or wrong and besides from what you tell me when you were an Athiest you were insane and “manic” hardley the right frame of mind to make an informed decision.
    I have now seen you were a Christian before you were an Athiest (Catholicsm is a form of Christianity) so you are defeating your own logic.

    “Aaron, you don’t want to understand:
    “Frankly I dont want to understand this, the fact you cant even see what this religion is doing to you only makes it even more depressing and horrific and makes you seem even more brainwashed and cult-like.” –Aaron.

    So that’s why you don’t understand; because you don’t want to. ”

    Tut tut Peggy!!! Taking what I said out of context! You’ll be claiming Albert Einstein believed in God next!
    I dont want to understand how you can feel like you are living a full and happy life yet openly admit that without God you would feel miserable and worthless.
    To understand this depressing outlook would only make me depressed, you need to think more Peggy….if you are able…and stop taking what I say out of context.

    “If you don’t want to see then don’t… you came into my path, remember.. you started talking to me and making fun of me. If your life is so much better than mine, and I’m crazy then why are you here to make fun of me? ”

    Ive been commenting on this website for almost 2 yrs now Peggy, im not here because of you, you came into my path.
    Im on this site for shits and giggles nothing more, it amuses me, people like you, and intrigues me, thats all, dont flatter yourself.

    The rest of your comment was another crazy brainwashed rant and again you sound insane.

    I hope you live in the US with the rest of you folk, the world needs less of you to be a better place.

    Aaron

  180. Aaron

    Peggu

    Muslims, Chiristians, and Jews all believe in the God of Abraham, I even demonstrated a (horrific) story the 3 faiths share.
    Just because you think a demon visited Mohummad, does not suddenly make “Allah” and “Yaweh” different beings……as much as you would like them to be

    Im not sure why your having such a hard time accepting this as most people of these faiths already accept this….some of them are even using it to build bridges…you would do well to educate yourself more before you comment.

    It would make you look less silly

    Aaron

  181. Peggy Miene

    Aaron: ponder these
    Are you sure I’m confused?
    boiled down without mincing words we both agree that we learn from each other when we have misunderstandings;
    Is jail a place of pleasure or torture?
    What do you think?
    There is no ‘let up’ for a life sentence either. People serve them and die in jail.
    If I go by your premise of what the span of ‘life’ is a life sentence is eternity.
    I pointed out how Mohammed and Islam aren’t inspired by God.

  182. Aaron

    Peggy

    Jail is not torture, people sleep, eat, urinate, read, excersise, some even have a TV and a playstation.
    It is a punishment, it is their freedom taken away from them, and the punishment fits the crime, after a fair trial.
    The let up of a life sentence is death, what is the let up of hell…..

    Thanks for ignoring the rest of my post and glossing over my comments on hell…..as I knew you would

    Aaron

  183. Aaron

    Peggy

    “I pointed out how Mohammed and Islam aren’t inspired by God.”

    No you didnt, you highlighted how brainwashed you are….if it was as simple as you say Islam would not be growning at the rate it is, and converting people from Christianity no less!
    There would be no Muslims at all.

    I still want you to address how a God who made a set of rules that results in ANYONE going to hell, and infinite punishment for finite crimes, or even eternal torture just for picking the wrong faith….could possibly not be evil
    God didnt have to set these standards or make these rules, but he did.

    Aaron

  184. Peggy Miene

    aaron

    they also get beat up, and raped. Maybe this life is the fair trial you are having Aaron… you can be an honest person and see the truth.. I’ve provided more than enough sources you can look up on your own.. look up Carl Jung, look up Sigmund Frued (a coke head who had a medical suicide), look up Nietzsche; he’s the philosopher who said “God is dead” and he ened up going mad, institutionalized. read up on him

    aaron.. I’m telling you… listen.. what if me talking to you now is part of your trail and you won’t even consider it; wouldn’t that be fair.

    God will tell, you Aaron remember Peggy and that long battle you had with her; she was trying to tell you, and you wouldn’t listen..

    stop fighting it..

  185. Peggy Miene

    aaron

    this is an anaglogy my spelling is going to be awful but bare with me please

    How can you tell if $100.00 bill is counterfiet?

    by comparing it to a real $100.00 bill.

    by holding them both up to the light and examining them and seeing which one is authentic and which one is fake.

    that’s why God lets all these beliefs run together

    He lets them all be and run their course so that we can hold up one belief to the light and compare it to the others and figure out which ones are true..

    study Aaron and read.. if i’m so crazy; prove me crazy by reading the info; do your own research.. and go where the evidence takes you..

  186. Aaron

    Peggy

    You arent listening to a word im saying are you?
    I feel like im banging my head against a wall, do you need me to bullet point? spell things out?
    Why do continuously refuse to acknowledge my points?
    Why do you keep ignoring my questions?
    Why do you gloss over everything?

    Is this how you remain Christian and keep your faith?
    By putting your fingers in your ears and singing “lalalala”
    Its a nice way to avoid reality, but its incredibally fustrating trying to have a discussion with you.
    I wish you could absorb what im saying but there seems to be a mental block (activated by your religious thinking im sure) which apparantly makes you fail to see what is right in front of you.

    Please go back over and READ my posts!!!!

    Aaron

  187. Aaron

    Peggy

    Are you kidding me?
    Study, read and go where the evidence takes you……how do you think I became an Athiest in the first place!!!

    May I suggest you follow your own advice….you can start with my posts if you like!
    But seeing as you are unable to absorb any information I feel you could read the entire Encylopedia Britannica and still be unable to name the star the Earth orbits without saying “God”.

    Aaron

  188. Peggy Miene

    Aaron
    Why do you want me to “see” ?

    I don’t and I won’t. It’s not going to happen.

    I have read your posts but you think I’m glossing over them; so maybe you shouldn’t waste your time.

    I always hate it when it’s time to part ways with someone. I speak Chinese and you speak Icelandic; we don’t agree.

    What do you think?

    I’ve heard a saying that says something along the lines of:
    ‘insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.’

    If you feel like this is futile than, don’t drive yourself crazy anymore. I don’t want that; I really don’t.

    But me being a girl I have to rub it in; I can’t help it.

    You must know that you sounded really stupid when you were talking about that prison thing..

    I mean I’m sure there must have been some of your atheists shaking their heads at how stupid that prison thing sounded. They were all rooting for you and then you said that and they were all like “DUH!!!! WHO SAYS THAT? PRISON IS NO TORTURE? WHAT; IDIOT!!!”

    I mean I could go into detail but, come on… prison is a place where they can ‘urinate?’

    You were being extra obnoxious by saying that; right?

    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE SAY THAT YOU WERE JUST BEING OBNOXIOUS.

    I’ve done that and people have totally misunderstood me when I was being obnoxious so; I’m hoping.. just hoping that you haven’t really been banging your head against the wall and busted a vessel lost consciousness and then came up with that.

    Is this the standard?

    Honestly, people will urinate no matter where they are.. and whether they are given permission to or not..

    I’m sorry I have to be so harsh but it’s true.. that was dumb.. but if you were joking then it was funny; (I guess).

    And you knew my name before I knew your name so you came into my path whether you’ve been checking this site out for two years. I don’t flatter myself; you flatter me.

    Am I ‘glossing over your comments?’ I just mentioned a whole bunch of your catch phrases.

    And the whole Abraham thing. It’s because of Ishmael and Isaac; you probably know this; the Jews say it was Isaac and the Arabs say it was Ishmael. and Just because it ‘creating ties’ doesn’t mean that’s a good thing. Majority isn’t always right in fact majority is usually wrong so if you ever see a whole bunch of people heading in one direction be sure to swim upstream while they head over the cliff.

    if you don’t write back; it was nice meeting you.. if you do i apprecaite your spunk;

    also; this might be totally rude but; do you have abandonment issues? It seems as though you are always saying things like “you’re ignoring me; you not reading what i write” etc

    just an observation.. or perhaps it is a tacitc or something? anyways enjoy your night; I am in the states; it’s 10:00 pm where i am.. and it’s about 5 pm where you are; take care…

    i didn’t proof read.

  189. Peggy Miene

    Aaron/ anyone:

    the “machine/ the system” thinks i’m a spy; a foreign contaminate
    I think that’s pretty telling

    This is today’s theme:

    I say we should all call for:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfkVEFLdGX0

    Lets all hurry it along;

    You do your part and I will do mine.. we all work together for the end product.. I’m ready to go..

    tock tick tock tick.. and dance..to the lovely music…

    Since everything around us is going to be destroyed like this, what holy and godly lives you should live, looking forward to the day of God and hurrying it along. On that day, He will set the heavens on fire, and the elements will melt away in the flames. But we are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth He has promised, a world filled with God’s righteousness.
    2 Peter 3:11-13 (NLT)

    All these people died still believing what God had promised them. They did not receive what was promised, but they saw it all from a distance and welcomed it. They agreed that they were foreigners and nomads here on earth. Obviously people who say such things are looking forward to a country they can call their own. If they had longed for the country they came from, they could have gone back. But they were looking for a better place, a heavenly homeland. That is why God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.
    Heb 11:13-16 (NLT)

    did you know that the word ‘Christian’ means a “Christ one”

    Following Christ isn’t a religion.

  190. Peggy Miene

    the truth hurts; it stings; but it surely does set one free..

    and the freedom is of such a kind… “Bellissimo”

    untangle yourself; while there is still time..

    And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
    John 8:32 (NLT)

    So if the Son sets you free, you are truly free.
    John 8:36 (NLT)

    But now you are free from the power of sin and have become slaves of God. Now you do those things that lead to holiness and result in eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.
    Romans 6:22-23 (NLT)

  191. Peggy Miene

    aaron

    you only insult me because i’m making headway; it makes me smile so much, please stop making me smile. it’s just a clear indicator; i’m totally getting to you..

  192. Aaron

    Peggy

    I have no idea how you see this discourse but I honestly feel I’ve lost you to some bizzarre world where you are buried under a dense layer of disillusionment.

    If you go over our previous posts to eachother I have commented on each and everyone of your points and answered each and everyone of your questions, clearly, concise and to the point.

    In turn I have made my own comments and posed my own questions to you.

    I feel that not only do I deserve the same in return from you, but it is also how a logical, calm and clear debate works.

    When the opposing party simply ignores the points raised and moves on without any mention, changing the subject with more untruths (which are in turn ignored and moved away from when exposed) then rambling blindly on without really making any points whatsoever then it becomes impossible to have any rational dialouge, let alone a reasonable and logical debate.

    And yes indeed it does become quite fustrating.

    If you want to continue with a rational discussion I would be more than happy to repeat myself and highlight the (rather clever, I think) points I raised, and pose my questions to you once again….numerous as they are.
    But I feel I would be wasting my time on you.
    Its a shame because I have really put alot of thought into these posts, I really do feel intellectually cheated by your amazing ability to simply close your mind to my insights.
    You put it beautifully when you said

    “Why do you want me to “see” ?

    I don’t and I won’t. It’s not going to happen”

    I think this sums up your mindset perfectly, your mind has been closed to anything I had to say before we even started this little back and fourth.

    Childish claims of “im totally getting to you har har” dont have any effect on me at all Peggy, I will not be reduced to your level.

    If you want a genuine discussion Peggy please let me know, but if your mind is already closed to intelligent reason then really what is the point?

    Aaron

  193. Aaron

    Peggy

    I have no idea how you see this discourse but I honestly feel I’ve lost you to some bizzarre world where you are buried under a dense layer of disillusionment.

    If you go over our previous posts to eachother you will see that I have commented on each and everyone of your points and answered each and everyone of your questions, clearly, concise and to the point.

    In turn I have made my own comments and posed my own questions to you.

    I feel that not only do I deserve the same in return from you, but it is also how a logical, calm and clear debate works.

    When the opposing party simply ignores the points raised and moves on without any mention, changing the subject with more untruths (which are in turn ignored and moved away from when exposed) then rambling blindly on without really making any points whatsoever then it becomes impossible to have any rational dialouge, let alone a reasonable and logical debate.

    And yes indeed it does become quite fustrating.

    If you want to continue with a rational discussion I would be more than happy to repeat myself and highlight the (rather clever, I think) points I raised, and pose my questions to you once again….numerous as they are.
    But I feel I would be wasting my time on you.
    Its a shame because I have really put alot of thought into these posts, I really do feel intellectually cheated by your amazing ability to simply close your mind to my insights.
    You put it beautifully when you said

    “Why do you want me to “see” ?

    I don’t and I won’t. It’s not going to happen”

    I think this sums up your mindset perfectly, your mind has been closed to anything I had to say before we even started this little back and fourth.

    Childish claims of “im totally getting to you har har” dont have any effect on me at all Peggy, I will not be reduced to your level.

    If you want a genuine discussion Peggy please let me know, but if your mind is already closed to intelligent reason then really what is the point?

    Aaron

  194. Aaron

    Peggy

    Sorry about the double post, computer froze, maybe God really wants to make this clear to you huh?

    Anyway I will respond to your first post as I have done all your previous (also to demonstrate how I have done what you have not)
    The rest with the bible quotes I have no comment for, the bible is fiction Peggy I dont buy it, Christians who quote the bible are such a cliche I was honestly wondering how long you would last!
    Its amusing you have finally resorted to it! haha
    Anyway here goes:

    “I always hate it when it’s time to part ways with someone. I speak Chinese and you speak Icelandic; we don’t agree.”

    Not at all Peggy, you simply fail to grasp the most simple of concepts, if you go over our posts you will see ive absorbed everything you told me and rebutted it, you failed to do the same, and whats this?
    Part ways? You’re leaving Peggy, cutting and running? giving up!

    “What do you think?

    I’ve heard a saying that says something along the lines of:
    ‘insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.’

    If you feel like this is futile than, don’t drive yourself crazy anymore. I don’t want that; I really don’t. ”

    No no im having fun, and merely exposing your amazing ability to ignore intelligent points I have raised, by the way your description of insanity sums up “prayer” quite well, interesting!

    “You must know that you sounded really stupid when you were talking about that prison thing..

    I mean I’m sure there must have been some of your atheists shaking their heads at how stupid that prison thing sounded. They were all rooting for you and then you said that and they were all like “DUH!!!! WHO SAYS THAT? PRISON IS NO TORTURE? WHAT; IDIOT!!!”

    I mean I could go into detail but, come on… prison is a place where they can ‘urinate?’

    You were being extra obnoxious by saying that; right?

    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE SAY THAT YOU WERE JUST BEING OBNOXIOUS. ”

    Oh Peggy! This made me smile! So much :)
    The urinating, whilst true, was merely thrown in for comic relief, as a laugh, im so glad it went over your head!
    And NO PEGGY!!! PRISON IS NOT TORTURE!!! As anyone who has been tortured, the victims of Pol Pot actually fled to Thailand to end up in THAI PRISONS! Because it was preferable to the torture Pol Pot would inflict upon them!
    And either way you are still justifying torture from you “loving” God, which (unlike prison) is eternal and has no end.
    Prisoners also have fair trial, and a sentence, and a punishment that fits the crime, whereas God throws people into hell just for picking the wrong faith!!
    Why do you ignore all these things Peggy?
    How can you possibly compare the eternal flames of hell to a 21st century western prison?
    Even the rapes and beatings that (rarely, despite was hollywood would have you believe) occur in (some) prisons (in the US) are inflicted by other inmates, not the judge who sent them there, let alont their own parents who claim to love them!

    Seriously Peggy! Prison and hell!
    Its amazing how your brain works!

    “And you knew my name before I knew your name so you came into my path whether you’ve been checking this site out for two years. I don’t flatter myself; you flatter me. ”

    If you say so dear, at least I made you feel good i guess ;)

    “Am I ‘glossing over your comments?’ I just mentioned a whole bunch of your catch phrases.”

    Brilliant! I have catch phrases now! (please look up what a catch phrase is Peggy)
    And either you ignorance is more astounding that I thought or you are purposly making false pretenses.
    Peggy you know full well I stated you were glossing over my points that I made, my reponses to your points, and my questions ,all of which you fail to even acknowledge.
    Not my (rather witty) remarks.

    “And the whole Abraham thing. It’s because of Ishmael and Isaac; you probably know this; the Jews say it was Isaac and the Arabs say it was Ishmael. and Just because it ‘creating ties’ doesn’t mean that’s a good thing. Majority isn’t always right in fact majority is usually wrong so if you ever see a whole bunch of people heading in one direction be sure to swim upstream while they head over the cliff.”

    Im dont with the whole Judeo-Christian God isnt what Muslims believe crap Peggy, your wrong research it, just because you think a demon visited Mohummad it does not make it so, most Christians have no issue with this and even if your right what difference does it make? I dont believe in Allah either!

    “if you don’t write back; it was nice meeting you.. if you do i apprecaite your spunk;”

    What on Earth made you think I wouldnt reply? Do you honestly believe your comming out on top in your weird little reality, all anyone has to do is read both our comments to see who is making all the clear, reasoned points here.
    And spunk? spunk? what spunk does it take to blog?
    The guy in front of the tank at Tiananmen square had spunk!
    I would even argue I had spunk when I jumped off the sky tower, or bunjy jumped into a ravine!
    Ressponding to you (or anyone else) takes no “spunk” at all.

    “also; this might be totally rude but; do you have abandonment issues? It seems as though you are always saying things like “you’re ignoring me; you not reading what i write” etc ”

    Abandonment issues? You’re really grasping at straws now Peggy, im afraid to inform you I come from a happy, stable family, close knit with no real issues whatsoever, ive also had (and am currently in) successfull close loving realationships with georgeous women so now im fine and dandy thanks :)
    But I am British and I think ignoring people is rude, especially when they make great insights as I have.
    Thats all, and I wanted to point it out to you (and anyone else who bothers to read all this)

    Aaron

  195. Aaron

    Peggy

    As an addition I also wanted to point out how you gloss over my insights, ignore my questions, and refuse to acknowledge my points, as it highlights how the religious mind works, and exposes how you are able to keep your faith.
    It shows how nothing sinks in, and how closed your mind is.

    As I said earlier on, you are essentially just putting your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes, and singing “lalalala”

    Aaron

  196. Peggy Miene

    Aaron

    you didn’t scare me away; it’s thanksgiving’s day here; remember when your people came here and then became “uncultureed” and turned into americans… and ruined the english language..

    i’ve been sleeping and feasting-

    I’m working on something for you though;

    to be honest; i find myself at a crossroads; i have two different ways i could go; but i’m not sure which way yet.. i just have ideas formulating; too many right now and they aren’t organized..

    even though you’re completely wrong we’re exactly the same/ too evenly matched;

    it’s like the epic of Gilgamesh when the people pray to the ‘gods’ for a new warrior to keep Gilgamesh busy enough to leave them alone; your akin to being my ‘Enkidu’ we might become best friends go on many adventures but then your gonna die.

    anyways.. let me eat and feast and enjoy my family some more then i’ll come back and kick your arse…

    maybe around evening time for you; see ya later cousin..

  197. Peggy Miene

    Aaron

    Just briefly I want to say that:
    One of the ways I could go is to just ignore you;
    it’s pointless to talk to someone when they say I’m not responding to their points;
    the conversation can’t go anywhere; unless it takes a different turn.. it has to go a different direction..

    “To give truth to him who loves it not only gives him more multiplied reasons to misinterpret it.”
    (that’s a quote by someone I don’t feel like looking up right now)

    I have an idea though…it feels messy in my head, but I think it’s going to be fun to do… and scary at the same time.. let’s see what happens.. it’s going to be personal I think, maybe more personal than I’d like to get.. I think some people will understand though… it has the potential of getting really ugly for me.. in the hands of such cruel people.

    But Jesus did it didn’t He; give up His life for His friends… poured out His life…

  198. Peggy Miene

    Aaron

    I’m half way thru; but i’m still on the fence about it; i want to sleep on it and see what happens when i wake up… i don’t think you’re going to understand it, but i want to get it as good as i can before i put it out there..

    now I’m suffering from performance anxiety; like it’s all hyped up and stuff…anyways… let’s see what happens

  199. Aaron

    Peggy

    It is indeed thanksgiving, being a pom (Brit) living in NZ I totally forgot about that, my apologises, hope you enjoyed the holiday.

    As for us being evenly matched I would disagree, as I have stated, and over stated, over and over again, I have acknowledged and re-butted every single one of your points.
    Not only have you failed to address more than just a handful of mind but you dont even acknowledge any of my rebuttles, you simply move on and appear to forget anything was ever even brought up, then start a whole new set of issues which I in turn have to address even though we still werent finished with the first dialouge.
    It seems you’re willing to accept defeat and yet claim it as a victory, an unsual (though, dare I say it, very Christian) way to behave.

    Im also suprsied you mentioned the epic of Gilgamesh, seeing as your Bible you hold to be so true has actually plagorised a few (The story of Noah is one example) of its stories from those tales.

    And kick my arse? If your going to kick my arse may I suggest you go back to my first response to you, all those days ago, and start from the beginging, as you have yet to show we are even in any sort of reasoned debate, let alone “kicking my arse” at it. (Thank you for spelling it arse, as opposed to the American “ass’ which funnily enough is an animal heavily involed with the birth of Christ….another plagerised tale, but thats an argument for another day!).

    “it’s pointless to talk to someone when they say I’m not responding to their points;
    the conversation can’t go anywhere; unless it takes a different turn.. it has to go a different direction.. ”

    Well thats because you are ignoring my points, I think ive made some very interesting points, and posed some difficult questions for you, and you just ignore them and gloss over them!
    The conversation obviously can turn a different direction without you just ignoring my questions, and not even acknowedging my ingenius rebuttles to your “arguments”.

    Let me dumb it down and show you a metaphorical example of how our conversation has gone thus far:

    Peggy ” The world is flat”
    Aaron “The world is round”
    Peggy “Nu-uh. its flat, God said so, and it looks flat”
    Aaron ” But Peggy, I do not belive in your God, and the world only looks flat due to how far we can see to the horizon as it is on a permant curve, photos from space prove this, how can you deny photos from space?”
    Peggy: God also said that unicorns are real
    Aaron ” Unicorns are not real, can you show me any fossils of unicorns?
    Peggy ” God is real, and Jesus is his son, it says so in the bible”
    Aaron: Why are you ignoring my points peggy?”
    Peggy ” The world is flat

    Before you get defensive and angry at me I know this is an over-simplification of how things have gone, and I dont for one second think that you actually believe the world is flat (even though it does vaugley claim this in the bible).
    I just want to try and drill the point home of what you are doing, how fustrating it is, and how it makes it impossible to have any reasoned argument with you.

    “But Jesus did it didn’t He; give up His life for His friends… poured out His life…”

    1. No Jesus was fictional and not even an original story
    2. Jesus didnt have to, his Dad made him do it, as some stupid loophole to a stupid rule his Dad made in the first place, but also didnt have to, and a loophole that again, he couldve just avoided, all just to save people from an eternal torture, that once again he created….and didnt have to…..man what a crazy story!
    3. To steal an argument from NormaBob himself, I would argue that no, Jesus did not sacrifice anything, sacrifice = loss. but Jesus didnt loose his life, he got it back 3 days later, then got to live forever, as king of the universe!! Some sacrifice!
    I would say everybody in hell is suffering way more than Jesus did.

    As for the rest of your post you sound crazy again, I assume your praying or something, who knows, whatever the result it would have been more impressive if you put your prediction of what you expect to happen or what you aim to achieve first, otherwise its just going to look meaningless no matter what you say.
    Anyway lets see where it goes…..

    Aaron

  200. Peggy Miene

    Aaron:

    I’m not defensive and angry at you but, I think you must have read my mind.

    I also think I took too long to respond.

    You somewhat stole me idea. I had already planned to do the whole:

    “Peggy said this”

    And

    “Aaron said this”

    That’s one of the reasons why I hate waiting so long on my ideas..

    (I’m a bit competitive; I don’t know if, you’ve noticed).

    I actually enjoyed your ‘over simplification’ bit. It was funny and clever.

    I like how I kept saying “I believe in unicorns”..

    Actually you know what?

    I do believe in unicorns.. They’re in heaven.. and I’m going to ride one; one day ;-p

    If Jesus was fictional how do you explain the Roman historian named Tacitus who wrote about Jesus Christ and the early Christians?

    The fact that he wrote about them and their beliefs with such disdain only proves that it all happened. It’s one thing to get a sympathizer to write about you; it’s a complete other thing to write about someone you hate but yet Tacitus laid out the facts in a mocking way which only ended up working in favor of us Christians.

    Look it up, Tacitus and his ‘Annals’ specifically book 15 chapter 44.
    This passage contains an early non-Christian corroboration of the origin of Christianity, the execution of Christ described in the Canonical gospels, and the presence and persecution of Christians in 1st-century Rome. In addition, it establishes these facts:
    • There was a sizable presence of Christians in Rome around 60 AD.
    • It was possible to distinguish between Christians and Jews in Rome.
    • Even pagans made a connection between Christianity in Rome and its origin in Judea.
    Scholars generally consider Tacitus’s reference to the execution of Jesus by Pontius Pilate to be both authentic and of historical value as an independent Roman source.

  201. Peggy Miene

    Aaron

    Thank you I had a lovely holiday.. I didn’t get to read as much as I would have liked though.

    Your absolutely right; I did spend a lot of time praying.. I’ve been praying for you; I’ve been wasting my time in a futile act on you; a stranger who talks down to me. It was and is a labor of love.

    I’m glad you brought up Bob’s argument. I would say Jesus lost 33 years on earth caring about people who mostly treated Him like crap and disregarded Him… I’m sharing in His suffering; so I can say I know the feeling.

    Prayer isn’t only about making something happen; it’s mostly to understand what’s going on. To slow down long enough to get a better view of the situation at hand; to let God lead me in the right direction. He can see everything from His perspective; up above it all; He’s the One Who knows you; not me; but thur prayer I can get a better insight into you. I can feel you.

    You’re so hard hearted. How can you have any kind of ‘great relationship with any women’ as hard as you are? Nothing penetrates you I can tell? So I think you’re lying when you say that you’ve had healthy relationships.

    I think you’re the one who is defensive. What are you protecting yourself from; having a ‘feeling’? Being touched?

    Why not just believe in Jesus if it’s just a ‘loophole?’ If that’s all that God requires why not just do it instead of complaining about it?

    I’m sure you’ve concocted worse schemes to keep from paying for something when you were legally supposed to; things like parking tickets for example; people do stuff like that all the time; they look for scapegoats.

    I wish you would stop thinking you were so smart and be a real person for a while.

    Well, after your little temper tantrum I’m going to go back to what I was originally going to write
    If you thought I was talking crazy before this will confirm it.

    This is really going to seem like it doesn’t go with anything we’ve been dialoguing about.

    Just categorize it as me chasing a butterfly; oh no; better yet, we’ll keep with what you contributed “I’ve got my fingers in my ears singing aloud… la la la la la”

    But before I start; something I’ve always noticed between men and women. Men always call women crazy and silly. Anyways…

    I got inspired by how you told me you were British.

    Actually it turns out I had been dwelling on this soundtrack (Sweeny Todd- the remake with Johnny Depp) for a while now coincidentally.

    As I said; everyday is a new day; everyday a new thing happens; something that confirms that God is real and supernaturally working in my life. This is me sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for the next exciting thing to happen and it always does.

    Another funny thing is that on the day you kept complaining about me ignoring you.

    I was.

    All of a sudden I just got this feeling to ignore you; like an experiment.

    It was mean of me but I had a sense that it would drive you mad and I wanted to see how you would react but to tell you the truth it was hard for me; I can’t easily let an argument go by at all and I don’t like being mean to people or ignoring them because I don’t like it when it’s done to me.

    Then you said that I was being “rude” which I saw as a great opportunity to expose your hypocrisy; so I’m glad I waited even though it was pretty short comparatively speaking.
    It seems that God always give me some sort of heads up; you turned out to be special…i don’t know special for what but at least you stand out.

    Like I’ve already said; lately I’ve been fixated on the Sweeny Todd soundtrack.

    It’s one of my favorite movies. I’m finding it hard to write about it because it makes me feel so vulnerable; I’m probably blowing it up in my head more than what it really is though.

    I relate to it so much; I relate to all the characters. I love the whole soundtrack; I couldn’t pick just one song or one character to identify with..

    All the characters are like different angles of the same person; me. That’s the great thing about art; we get to express out true stories.

    Your optimism reminds me of the young sailor Anthony.

    This is how I hear you sometimes:

    “I have sailed the world beheld its wonders from the Dardanelles, to the mountains of Peru, But there’s no place like London!”

    This is me-sometimes:

    You are young…Life has been kind to you…You will learn. There’s a hole in the world like a great black pit and the vermin of the world inhabit it and its morals aren’t worth what a pig can spit and it goes by the name of London. At the top of the hole sit the privileged few Making mock of the vermin in the lower zoo turning beauty to filth and greed…I too have sailed the world and seen its wonders, for the cruelty of men is as wondrous as Peru but there’s no place like London!
    There’s a hole in the world like a great black pit and it’s filled with people who are filled with sh**! And the vermin of the world inhabit it!”-end of quote

    I’ve traveled a lot too. I’ve done a little bit of everything… I’ve never jumped off of anything though; even though I had my chance; I could have jumped off of an aircraft carrier into the ocean, but I got too scared so one of the officers let me do it from a different part of the ship. It’s exciting to see snipers poised to shoot at a shark just in case.

    Anyways…

    My “London”, is New York/ New Jersey; the place of all my shadows and ghosts.

    It’s people who make the world crappy; not God; I wish more people were like God.

    This world is Satan’s creation (after the fall); this is the best he can do; creating a sea of pain…

    Everyone fighting all the time; people stabbing each other in the back, everyone out for themselves, everyone feels as if they are owed something instead of giving something. Everybody lies, everybody just takes, and everyone is a hustler.

    You brought up an example of how Muslims and Buddhist are pleading for God’s mercy and He still sends them to hell..

    I don’t think there are many people pleading for God’s mercy at all; I think it’s the other way around.

    I think its God pleading for people to hear Him. But people don’t want to listen. Then He just leaves them alone to do whatever they want. He leaves them to turn away from Him.

    The people of the world are full of crap.

    Sweeny is a perfect example of someone taking vengeance into their own hands. Not going to God but trying to do it all on his own. He gets screwed by Judge Turpin initially as a naïve young man and then his perspective being limited as it is ultimately, royally screwed by Mrs. Lovett.

    I like the song “My Friends” when Sweeny Todd sings to his knives.

    I think a lot of people who hear it like the song because it’s all gruesome but I hear it in a different way. I hear his loneliness. His single mindedness; he can’t hear anything but his own thoughts and remembering everything he lost. “I know, I know, you’ve been locked out of sight all these years just like me” he sings to his knives.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a72KYMQnDyk

    That’s what being in prison did to him Aaron and also being unjustly accused…

    I imagine how he must have gotten to prison and at first thinking to himself how this misunderstand will get cleared up and he’d get sent back home only to realize that there was never a misunderstanding at all and that is was all just a plot to get rid of him. Over the course of years his spirit slowly breaking down, losing all hope. He finally manages an escapes, gets back home to find only his knives waiting for him; the only remnants of his old life.

    Then you have Mrs. Lovett and her loneliness, another person in his life who exploits him for her own gain; a savvy business woman dropping bad ideas into Sweeny’s head that feed into the wrong direction his mind is already going.

    She sees him as two things: someone she used to have a crush on and then later as a way to get wealthy, but she never really cared about him because she never told him the truth thereby helping him. She was never a real friend.

    So she seduced him with her pretty speech and enticed him with her flattery. Proverbs 7:21
    In the end, people appreciate honest criticism far more than flattery. Proverbs 28:23

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn7yde54YUY&feature=related

    There are so many dynamics going on within the movie:

    You have Johanna; Todd’s daughter; “maddened by the stars” wanting to break free from the oppressive Judge Turpin.

    The crazy old woman ‘Lucy’ Todd’s wife; who is the only one who can smell the danger because she lived it; she knows mischief when she sees it no matter how ‘crazy’ she has become. I especially like how there is a lyric in the song “Poor Thing” about her ‘not coming down from her tower’ as if she were stuck up because she had standards; she had to be tricked by Judge Turpin to get what he wanted and then shove her off as ‘daft’.

    The aspect of this whole new generation carrying on the baggage of the older generation; Toby, Johanna, Anthony.

    I get a sense that Anthony as optimistic as he is, finds the love of his life Johanna but he’s got to deal with all her problems now.. as beautiful as she is, she’s a bit damaged and he’s taken her on as his own.. this is where he will learn the true wonders of the world… man’s corrupt nature.

    Toby, an orphan/ street kid who has to make some kind of living and ends up with anyone who will take him whether they treat him nice or not; he doesn’t have much choice in the world; he ends up really loving and caring for Mrs. Lovett all the while she’s plotting to kill him because he’s catching on to what’s really going on; although on the wrong trail.

    Mr. Pirelli an adult orphan himself who takes out his aggressions on Toby;

    anyways this is what i wanted to write; it’s the best i could get it..

  202. Peggy Miene

    Aaron

    I wrote you a total of three things (this one included)

    but this website gets confused about links – Bob told me- so if you don’t get the second one; that’s the reason.

  203. Aaron

    Peggy

    As is the usual fashion, i will comment on your points, all the while wishing you would do the same, although you are improving, you actually responded to some of my points in your last post, I give you a C, still not quite there but an improvement, well done.

    Oh no! Not Tacitus! How will I ever explain this 100% verifiable eyewitnes account of…..oh wait……hang on…..Tacitus, born 56AD……..about 26years, give or take, after Jesus died!
    56 years after he died Peggy, not exactly an eyewitness was he! and thats the best you have to offer?
    If Jesus was real Peggy, given the amazing things he did, do you not think at least one person who was alive at the same time might have had something to say about him?
    Do you not think his excecution by the Romans, a civilisation known for its record keeping, would have been documented, as to say it would have been a big deal is a drastic understatement!
    Fail Peggy, try again.

    It funny how you bring up Christian persucution in Rome, as although this undeniably was the case, the Christians eventually not only overcame it, but came out on top! It became the official religion of the Roman Empire, Infact Christianity is littered with left over remenants of Roman mythology, so as to make the conversion of an entire people much easier!
    Then, Rome spread Christianity to the world, by peaceful converstions some may ask? Of course not! But by the sword, spread with bloodshed and death, worship Jesus or die!

    I want no part of that history thanks

    Aaron

  204. Peggy Miene

    Aaron

    There are accounts of Jesus’ contemporaries, Matthew, Mark and John.

    Luke interviewed many of the eye witnesses.

    From what I understand; Tacitus must have interviewed eye witness much like Luke and or worked off of Roman archives; I also understand that his witnesses (if any) weren’t sympathizers of Christianity like I’ve already written.

    Why would you think that the execution of a troubling making Jew would be of any significance to the powerful Romans?

    You have to view it from their perspective during the time that they lived.

    A doubt Romans who spent most of their time engaged in battles and conquering new lands would think that the killing of a ‘petty criminal’ or even less significant ‘a Jewish sage’ was anything to keep a record of- at the time.

    But as Tacitus reveals, I think we can imply that as the Christians grew in number and annoyance he/ historians/ journalist (whatever you want to call it) of the era began to keep records of it/ reporting the happenings.

    And any writer knows that one can’t write everything perfectly. It’s hard to write down every detail.

    Not Christianity; Catholicism, they are two different things. Then you know about Constantine and his vision right?

    I think that was just God’s way of beginning a new phase in the spreading of the gospel; another phase in human history. But as you can see all around you, the things of God are in a decline again; were back to the humanistic views..

    Since you have read your Bible thru and thru then you will notice parallels to Judaism as well and how the Israel became corrupt too.

    All human systems eventually become corrupt because people are corrupt.

    You know that in the Bible God told the prophet Samuel that He didn’t want to give the people a king; God Himself wanted to be their King but that the people were rejecting Him.

    “Do everything they say to you,” the LORD replied, “for it is Me they are rejecting, not you. They don’t want Me to be their king any longer. Ever since I brought them from Egypt they have continually abandoned Me and followed other gods. And now they are giving you the same treatment. Do as they ask, but solemnly warn them about the way a king will reign over them.” 1 Sam 8:7-9 (NLT)

  205. Peggy Miene

    Aaron
    why wouldn’t you want any part of that history
    they sound like interesting times, like all ‘times’ sound interesting,… just time evolving until we get to the end.. it all works together..
    don’t you think it’s interesting that you could trace your whole family all the way to the beginning of time?
    I could too, if we had the means, the knowhow and if there were immaculate record keeping we could both trace back exactly where we come from..
    i find that fascinating..unfortunately the records aren’t immaculate but we have something else.. genetics..
    When I die I will know everything.. all these things.. I will know why certain songs move me so much as if they were in my blood..

    Like this one; it’s French:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfCkmiQ0nDs&feature=autoplay&list=WL98D2F45094C9215F&lf=mh_lolz&playnext=1

    Here are the lyrics translated:
    (When I see the lark joyfully moving its wings against the sun’s rays, and falling because of the sweetness that enters its heart, ah! a great envy comes upon me of all those who I see happy. I am astonished that my heart does not melt with desire.

    Alas! I thought I knew so much about love, and I know so little, because I cannot stop loving the one from whom I will never obtain anything. She has taken my heart, myself, herself, and the whole world, and has left me with nothing but yearning and a languishing heart.

    I no longer have power over myself, and am no longer my own person, from the moment when she lets me look into her eyes, that mirror that pleases me so. Mirror, since I am mirrored in you, my sighs have caused my death, for I am lost just as Narcissus lost himself in the fountain.

    I despair of women; never more shall I trust them. As once I exalted them, now shall I cast them down. Since I see that not one of them is for me against she who destroys and confounds me, I doubt and mistrust them all, since I well know they are all the same.

    And in this I see that my lady is very much a woman, and that is why I criticize her. For she does not want that which she should want, and that which she is forbidden, she does. I am fallen very low, and I have acted like the fool on the bridge. And I don’t know why this has happened to me, unless it’s because I tried to mount too high.

    Since nothing works any more with my lady – neither prayers nor pity nor my rights concerning her; and since it no longer pleases her that I love her, I will never more say it to her. And so I take my leave and go away from her. She has killed me, and I respond to her with death. And I leave, since she doesn’t retain me, I the unhappy one, into exile, I know not where.) -end of lyrics

    Or this one called: A Chanter M’er which translated means
    “I must sing of what I do not want”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3di_FWO8MU&feature=BFa&list=WL98D2F45094C9215F&lf=mh_lolz

    She reminds me of the prophet Jeremiah and of myself.. some people have to be experts on things they would not like to be experts on… that’s life; we make the best of it until we die; die to live I mean;
    at least this way it’s all for a reason.

    why do i feel as though i know these songs…? where does a feeling like that come from?

  206. Peggy Miene

    Aaron,
    this is just for enjoyment;
    these are the lyrics to that “A chantar mes al core” written by La Comtessa de Dia in the late 12th century
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3di_FWO8MU&feature=BFa&list=WL98D2F45094C9215F&lf=mh_lolz
    Like I said:
    She reminds me of the prophet Jeremiah, Hosea and of myself.. some people have to be experts on things they would not like to be experts on… that’s life; we make the best of what we’ve got until we die;
    die to live I mean;
    at least this way it’s all for a reason we get to find out the full meaning of it all when we die..
    Lyrics.
    I must sing of what I do not want,
    I am so angry with the one whom I love, because I love him more than anything:

    Mercy nor courtesy moves him, neither does my beauty, nor my worthiness, nor my good sense,
    For I am deceived and betrayed as much as I should be, if I were ugly.

    I take comfort because I never did anything wrong, friend, towards you, in anything,
    Rather I love you more than Seguin did Valensa, and I am greatly pleased that I conquered you in love, my friend, because you are the most worthy;

    You are arrogant to me in words and appearance, and yet you are so friendly towards everyone else.
    I wonder at how you have become so proud, friend, towards me, and I have reason to lament;

    It is not right that another love take you away from me no matter what is said or granted to you
    and remember how it was at the beginning of our love!
    May Lord God never wish that it was my fault for our separation.
    The great prowess that dwells in you, and your noble worth retain me, for I do not know of any woman, far or near, who, if she wants to love, would not incline to you;

    But you, friend, have such understanding that you can tell the best, and I remind you of our sharing.
    My worth and my nobility should help me, my beauty and my fine heart; therefore, I send this song down to you so that it would be my messenger.
    I want to know, my fair and noble friend, why you are so cruel and savage to me;
    I don’t know if it is arrogance or ill will.
    But I especially want you, messenger, to tell him
    that many people suffer for having too much pride.

  207. Peggy Miene

    Aaron

    oh, look, it turns out people do get beat up in prison and it’s not fun in there.. gee, who would have ever figured that out… it’s not a place of whimsy…

    “One of three American students arrested during protests in Cairo described his first hours in custody as “probably the scariest night of my life ever,” saying the youths were hit, forced to lay for hours in the dark in a near fetal position and threatened with guns.” -Associated Press (africa world news)

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/11/25/three-us-students-arrested-in-egypt-on-way-to-airport-lawyer-says/?test=latestnews?test=latestnews?test=latestnews#ixzz1euk6zghB

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/11/25/three-us-students-arrested-in-egypt-on-way-to-airport-lawyer-says/?test=latestnews?test=latestnews?test=latestnews

  208. Peggy Miene

    Aaron

    This is so embarrassing but I have to admit it; do I dare say aloud? “Aaron you’ve civilized me.” You’ve knocked the wind out of my sail and given me meat and potatoes to focus my energy and attention on; you’ve given me direction; at least for a brief period.
    You’ve humbled my arrogance…

    I said in the beginning of all this that I would go where it took me and let it evolve.
    This is so embarrassing; I’m not admitting defeat in my beliefs; I’m only admitting that, I’ve been tamed and made to pay attention.
    Leave it to the iron will of a Brit to bring into submission an unruly tribesman.
    What will I ever do when you leave?

  209. Peggy Miene

    There’s something that I’ve learned about life. And it goes like this:
    We find people interesting when they find us interesting. People like it when they’re cared for. When someone gets into your path and won’t let you pass by.
    Of course it always goes back to God.
    There’s a verse that says:
    We love each other because He (Jesus) loved us first. 1 John 4:19 (NLT)

    That’s what threw me for a loop with Aaron.. . he got in my way and he wouldn’t let me pass.
    It takes guts to do something like that with a total stranger.
    It’s like “Why would someone do that? Why would someone care about someone they don’t know?”
    Of course I totally disagree with him and of course he makes fun of me alot, but I understand that he thinks his world view is right. I understand that he sees himself as someone who is ‘saving’ me; reasoning with me to get to something better. It stumped me…
    In the end, people appreciate honest criticism far more than flattery. Prov 28:23 (NLT)

  210. Aaron

    Peggy

    whoa!! Back to your old tricks! Not sure ill have time to read all your posts!
    Ill respond with the first one for now
    By the way as I already stated Bible quotes are meaningless, the bible is fiction, if a Muslim quoted the Koran to prove Islam and Allah to you would you accept those quotes?
    Ofcourse not, so please refrain from quoting the bible, it is a waste of both our time.

    “There are accounts of Jesus’ contemporaries, Matthew, Mark and John.

    Luke interviewed many of the eye witnesses. ”

    This is included, please tell me of a single eyewitness to Jesus, apart from in the bible, the bible is a religious text and not historically accurate so is a bad example of eyewitnesses, and if Jesus did exist there would be historical records, from his own time, outside of the bible, but there arent.

    “From what I understand; Tacitus must have interviewed eye witness much like Luke and or worked off of Roman archive”

    Again, please list these eyewitnesses, I would question the gospel of Luke as a religious text, and please cite these Roman Archive references, as from what ive read, the vast majority of Historians cant find a single reference to Jesus in the (extensive) Roman Archives.
    Those that can tend to have a Christian bias, are not peer reviewed, and are so vauge they could really apply to anyone alive at the time.
    Given that Jesus apparantly performed miracles and was the son of God, I feel if he had existed the archives would be over-flowing of Jesus realted references, however this is not the case…..as I already explained.

    “Why would you think that the execution of a troubling making Jew would be of any significance to the powerful Romans?”

    Er….son of God…..miracles….Hello?….Peggy?…..Are you on the same planet as the rest of us?
    Miracles aside he was still, according to the bible, quite well known (to say the least!) And quite a trouble maker, so yes it would have been big news (his excecution) and yes the Romans most definalty would have recorded it.
    So the fact that they didnt, speaks volumes about the authenticity of Christianity.

    “But as Tacitus reveals, I think we can imply that as the Christians grew in number and annoyance he/ historians/ journalist (whatever you want to call it) of the era began to keep records of it/ reporting the happenings. ”

    I already rebutted this, please read my previous post.

    “And any writer knows that one can’t write everything perfectly. It’s hard to write down every detail. ”

    I agree, ofcourse history is written by the victor, and the victor, ultimatley, was Christianity, which makes the lack of evidence even more startling!
    And as I said, Jesus was apparantly quite famous, performed miracles, claimed to be the son of God, and generally caused quite a stir.
    The Romans most definatly would have AT LEAST one reference to him, yet they dont, your feeble efforts to explain why this is almost sounds like your brain realises this truth but your heart wont accept it, your brain is going around in circles trying to explain these things to your heart, but ultimately, failing.

    “Since you have read your Bible thru and thru then you will notice parallels to Judaism as well and how the Israel became corrupt too. ”

    Stop putting words in my mouth Peggy, I have read the bible, and know it well enough (better than most Christians) but to say I know it through and through is a drastic over-statement and I never once claimed that.
    Im not sure what your getting at here, whether your trying to claim Judaism as false, which obviously I agree as I dont believe in that either.
    Or if its some vauge reference to “fulfilled prophecies” of the New Testament.

    Just incase this is the…er…case (couldnt think of better wording there hehe) Im going to stop that train of thought now by saying those who claim the New Testament must be true because it fulfills the propheicies of the Old Testament is a ridiculous claim.
    The Old Testament was written first, it would have been beyond simple for the people who wrote the New Testament to just read the Old Testament and make up a bunch of stories fulfilling the prophecies, I think the whole thing is fiction remember!
    It would be like someone telling me that Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows is a true story because it fulfills the prophecies of Harry Potter and the Phillosophers stone.
    A mind bogginly silly claim and easy to refute, it amazes me that so many Christians cant see this obvious flaw.

    “All human systems eventually become corrupt because people are corrupt.”

    I would say I dont totally agree with this statement although I dont totally disagree either, it isnt that black and white, however this is a deeply complicated issue and its outcome has absoloutley no connection to the validity of Christianity so im not going to persue this.

    The rest of your post is Bible quotes which, as ive stated, are meaningless fiction to me and a waste of time.

    I will attempt to reply to the rest of your posts, if I even have the energy to read them, but this will do for now

    Aaron

  211. Aaron

    Peggy

    Just out of interest are you aware that the Gospels werent even written in Jesus time, they were written about 20-30 years after his death, and thats just the earliest ones (Luke I believe but im not sure and cant be bothered to google it).

    Admittedly they were biblical eyewitnesses, but writing these amazing miraculous tales so long after his death, especially when the life expectancy back then was only 40-50 years, and that was for the wealthy, seems to me more than a bit suspect.
    Doubly so when the whole point of writing them was to found a new religion.

    Again another obvious flae staring Christians in the face, yet it is happily and blissfully ignored

    Aaron

  212. Aaron

    Peggy

    Ok read 2 more of your posts, have no time to deal with the song lyrics as they are…well…song lyrics and unimportant to the discussion

    The next post flatters me, thank you Peggy, although Im not sure if your being sarcastic or not at the end?

    I’ll read and respond to your final post now, as I go, as it seems quite short:

    The first paragraph I obviously disagree with, it does not come back to God, it comes back to Human spirit, humanity etc
    It pains me that religion sucks this out of people and replaces their love of human kind with a love of a mystical sky daddy, and an evil, jealous (who of I wonder?), genocidal one at that!

    Horrific

    “That’s what threw me for a loop with Aaron.. . he got in my way and he wouldn’t let me pass.
    It takes guts to do something like that with a total stranger.
    It’s like “Why would someone do that? Why would someone care about someone they don’t know?””

    Again Peggy not sure where your going with this, as ive already stated it doesnt take any guts whatsoever, its the internet.
    And I dont care at all, its an interesting (slightly amusing) online debate, nothing more.
    It gives me a chance to explain why I feel you are wrong in your beliefs and whats wrong with them and gives you a chance to defend them, as everyone should be able to do, and (I know you will disagree with this but anyone neautral reading the back and fourth between us would have to agree with me) I dont think you have dont a very good job at all of defending your faith.
    All you’ve done is close your mind to everything ive had to say, and preached at me.

    “I understand that he sees himself as someone who is ‘saving’ me; reasoning with me to get to something better. It stumped me…”

    Im not trying to “save” you from anything Peggy, you need to realise I dont think like you, im not a Christian.

    And as ive alreadsy explained Athiesm isnt a world view, we disagree on many things, all Athiesm is, is a lack of belief in a God, any God, thats all, nothing else.
    It is not even a rejection of God as most Christians claim, it is simply the act of not believing it exists, I look at God the same way I look at fairies, at Bigfoot and at Gnomes.
    If the evidence was there I would believe, but it isnt so I cant….notice I say cant!
    Its not just that I dont believe but i physically cant believe in God just like I cant believe in the smurfs, it seems so obviously fictional.
    However if there was any evidence to the contrary, I would happily change my mind.

    Once you understand this about Athiests you may have a better time dealing with us

    Aaron

  213. Peggy Miene

    Aaron

    I’m not being sarcastic, you do seem like a good person; and you got my attention in a way the others haven’t.

    I wrote something else to you but it didn’t go thru yet; I wrote it yesterday. If you ever find it; it has to do with the Tim Burton’s re-make Sweeny Todd.- it’s really long, 5 pages. It’s nothing that you have to respond to. They’re just thoughts of mine. I just wanted to put to put it out there and you gave me the chance.

    I think we’ve finally reached a point where we can really talk, but I have to be honest; I will use bible quotes as I see fit. I’ve been doing it the whole time in other posts.

    What I do with your posts is that I read all of them first and then comment; since you’re the only one who’s given points and since we’re way too similar it would take forever to reprint every line and comment on everything.

    Also I want to add that you don’t have to comment.

    In a way, I’d actually prefer you didn’t comment. I kind of feel like your distracting me; but in another way, I guess, you’re kind of calming me down and giving me focus.

    I should also let you know (and I’ve already mentioned this; but I don’t think I gave a good explanation)that I get to the ‘comments’ thru the comments link; what I mean is I don’t go thru, that RSS site, or WordPress. It doesn’t post everything. On my computer I see all my posts.

    I literally go to where the ‘latest comments for newfoundjoy part 2- at Bob’s site’ then I click on “leave one” and I scroll up to see if there is anything new…

    I think this is the spot where the comments are the most up to date. Hopefully that will alleviate confusion in the future.

    Anyways.. here I go; I’m gonna do this in a bulk or else we’d be here forever so I won’t answer everything; or even fully.

    There are historical references but you won’t accept them: Josephus and Tacitus.

    About you reading the Bible thru and thru;

    You understand perfectly well what I’m getting at. You’re not stupid; you can tell I’m being sarcastic here and my point is that you are talking of things you have never studied for yourself. If you did read the bible thru and thru you would understand about perspective.

    For one thing; how the bible was complied; how the writers were inspired, how they wrote and how a person can’t write everything; I could go on but it’s too tedious. It’s something that you would have to just do yourself and find out for yourself.

    As far as the Judaism my point is that (again, you have to read the Bible to understand- I read the OT & the NT)

    I have to quote the bible here:

    ‘Your own law’ says that if two people agree about something, their witness is accepted as fact. John 8:17

    In this verse Jesus is talking to the Jewish Religious leaders and He says “Your Law” implying that although God did give Moses the Ten Commandments the Jewish leaders thru out the ages added meaning to stuff in ways that were way off the original intentions.

    It got corrupted.

    Jesus also says this to the religious leaders:
    “You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to Me! John 5:39

    Pointing out that their interpretation of the Scriptures was wrong.

    I don’t want to be misunderstood though; Israel is still God’s chosen people.

    I say this because there is this wave of people (even ‘Christians’) who hate Jews and/or this thing called ‘Zionist Extremist’- which I don’t know much about but regardless I’m not in this category. This is not my point of view.

    I know why it got corrupted just like Catholicism got corrupted, because people are corrupt and even Christianity is corrupted.

    The bible says this would happen. That in the last days there would be false Christian who would come and distort the Word of God so that people like you would have a reason to slander God and His Word.

    Many will follow their evil teaching and shameful immorality. And because of these teachers, the way of truth will be slandered. 2 Peter 2:2

    That’s why I say Jesus isn’t a religion.

    Aaron, if the Bible is so false and fictional then why does it matter whether I quote it or not?

    As far as the Gospels, I am aware that they were written after Jesus’ death and resurrection.

    But again this has to do with perspective. Your scope is very narrow.

    Notice how we in this modern time are still compiling and reviewing what happened in WW2. Just like people will still be compiling and piecing together what happened on Sept 11, far into the future-

    think about how many people with their camera phones have footage of it; that’s a lot of people and thanks to technology; I hope you can get a small part of my point; which is that back in those days, not many people knew how to read? And Write? Most of the stories were oral. Passed down.

    Christians were persecuted for along time before Constantine. I wouldn’t say they were the victors; at least at that point in history.

    In fact a lot of Christians are getting persecuted just like that now; read about the Coptic Christians in Egypt. That’s just one example. Read about the Christians in Korea.

    Why can’t you understand that I used to be an atheist?

    And most of my best friends were/ are Satanists and wiccans and atheists; and contrary to popular beliefs, I wasn’t the one who rejected them as outcasts; I got outcast-ed by the outcasts; if you can believe it.

    If you’re not trying to ‘save’ me then what are you doing?

    If you’re not trying to ‘save’ me then where is this ‘human love’ you are referring to?

    Then I’m left to conclude that you are only trying to make fun of me or sound smart..

    And now I’m just being obnoxious but ‘human spirit’ you say?

    Isn’t that intangible? Where does this ‘spirit’ come from?

    Did you know that the word ‘inspire’ means ‘breath’?

    God breaths His breath into us when He gives us His Spirit (with a capital S).

    The thing I wrote on Sweeny Todd; gives my point of view on humanity; actually.

    I know a lot about people…

  214. Peggy Miene

    aaron

    actually, there are like three posts all together that haven’t gone thru, Bob, told me it’s because of links, i guess it throws the site off sometimes,

    the site thinks i’m spamming..

    these are the ‘misunderstandings’ that i’m talking about; people jumping to conclusions without looking at the whole picture… or being patient enough to look at the whole picture first; or even taking the time to confirm things/ test things out first..

    the other posts aren’t much of anything… one of them is the sweeny todd thing; the other is another medevil song… with lyrics and the other is me making fun of you and your whole prison not being torture thing with an article of some americans who got beat up in an egyptian prison their first night.. and they thought they were going to be killed; the article did go on to say that the following nights the americans were treated much better.. but still, prison isn’t fun- sometimes, in cases where there are americans/ brits/ whites invovled in other countires they are treated better to be used for bargining or because we americans tell them that there will be consequnces if they hurt our people and they back off a bit- this also has to do with high profile cases; .. but you know all this already… excuse my spelling..

  215. Peggy Miene

    Aaron

    i just got this:

    Hi Peggy, Aaron here, I see you got scared and have fled the normalbobsmith coments page, just to let you know I have responded to your post, if you want to check it out, if not I understand :-) all that thinking must have been hard work! I guess its easier to cut and run, give your brain a rest, and submerge yourself back into the thoughtless world of faith, anyway my comments are just sitting there, waiting to be read (or in your case, ignored)
    Aaron

    again, see what i mean about misunderstandings.. and jumping to conclusions… you wrote this on Friday, November 25, 2011 4:20 PM (my time)

    i think i was cooking at this time, because we ate at like at 5 p.m. i spent the whole day cooking; i cooked so much i was sore… as if i ran a marathon.. i’m not kidding..(i loved it; it was awesome though- )

    Is this the human love you were talking about???

    i’m not mad; but i’m posting it as an example, as proof… maybe you can see my point… like i said; i know a lot about people and human nature, unfortunately i know too much about it; i’m an expert…

  216. Peggy Miene

    Aaron

    and then you delete the account? who’s the one who is scared and runs? you stabbed me in the back before you even knew what was going on…

    and where do i know that name from ‘aaronpompeynz’ i feel like i’ve seen it before.

    I’m not mad/ i still like you and i still think you’re interesting;
    i’m just using the opprotunity that was presented..to showcase your rudeness… your so harsh and you come down on me so fast and you don’t look at yourself.. Aaron, i’m telling you; that’s dangerous…

    i know you guys think i judge, and i do; but it’s not the same way you guys do… i’m telling you there is a difference… so quick to murder… think about it.. aaron…

    like i said,, i just got this, i don’t check my e-mail everyday and i don’t even check that youtube page at all… anyways… think about it… and don’t get defensive, i’m not being defensive.. if you can say it to me; i can say it to you.. I’ve only been thinking good thoughts about you this whole time…

    maybe this is the stuff i’ve been praying about; you asked to mention any ‘predictions’

    qoute:

    As for the rest of your post you sound crazy again, I assume your praying or something, who knows, whatever the result it would have been more impressive if you put your prediction of what you expect to happen or what you aim to achieve first, otherwise its just going to look meaningless no matter what you say.
    Anyway lets see where it goes…..
    -Aaron

  217. Peggy Miene

    Aaron

    no correction, on friday at 5 i was probably sleeping or playing video games with my son…

    also so there’s no confusion in the future

    remember, your a whole day ahead of me, you have to think about these things… look at the whole picture.. look at all the details….

  218. Peggy Miene

    If anyone wants to battle, come on up, I have an insatiable appetite, a lot of time on my hands, and the battles only make me keener…

    The Bible says, more specifically Jesus said:

    “The Kingdom of Heaven is like a mustard seed planted in a field. It is the smallest of all seeds, but it becomes the largest of garden plants; it grows into a tree, and birds come and make nests in its branches.” Matthew 13:31-32

    Jesus said it would start as being the smallest but that it would grow and become the largest.
    The following is a quote from the site ‘Wise Geek’: I’d put the link but I don’t want anything to hinder my posts… type in the term ‘What is the World’s Largest Religion’ into ‘Wise Geek’s search engine. Click on the first option and it should lead you to this:

    The world’s largest religion is Christianity, making up about 33% of the world population according to a 2005 survey by the Encyclopædia Britannica. That is approximately two billion people. Other large religions include Islam (20%), Hinduism (13%), Chinese folk religion (6.3%) and Buddhism (5.9%). Indigenous religions make up 4% of the world’s population, and atheism about 14%.

    Of two billion Christians, about half are represented by the Roman Catholic Church, led by the Pope, with the rest being members of the Eastern Orthodox Church or various Protestant sects. The Christian Church suffered several schisms throughout its history, most importantly the East-West Schism (1054) and the Protestant Reformation (16th century).

    Christianity, which began as a Jewish sect, has been the world’s largest religion for about 1600 years, since on 27 February 380 when Emperor Theodosius I made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire, ending hundreds of years of Roman mythology as state religion. Before that, the world’s largest religion was likely Hinduism, which is so old that its beginnings are poorly understood. Christianity received another major boost in the 980s, when Vladimir the Great was baptized and spread Christianity throughout Russia. If Christianity was not the world’s largest religion before then, then it surely became the largest at that time. –end of quote

    I guess Aaron was wrong; Islam isn’t growing that fast is it??? Hmm, interesting, what happens when we actually take the time to look something up… it makes a world of difference.

  219. Peggy Miene

    interesting story

    While there are historical naysayers who would be more comfortable downplaying his skills and achievements (most of whom have never made a convincing case as where the source of his apocalyptic visions emanates from), Robert Johnson remains a potent force to be reckoned with. As a singer, a composer, and as a guitarist of considerable skills, he produced some of the genre’s best music and the ultimate blues legend to deal with. Doomed, haunted, driven by demons, a tormented genius dead at an early age, all of these add up to making him a character of mythology who — if he hadn’t actually existed — would have to be created by some biographer’s overactive romantic imagination.

    The legend of his life — which by now, even folks who don’t know anything about the blues can cite to you chapter and verse — goes something like this: Robert Johnson was a young black man living on a plantation in rural Mississippi. Branded with a burning desire to become great blues musician, he was instructed to take his guitar to a crossroad near Dockery’s plantation at midnight. There he was met by a large black man (the Devil) who took the guitar from Johnson, tuned it, and handed it back to him. Within less than a year’s time, in exchange for his everlasting soul, Robert Johnson became the king of the Delta blues singers, able to play, sing, and create the greatest blues anyone had ever heard.

  220. Peggy Miene

    For Aaron
    From one New Zealander (Ray Comfort) to his, beloved nemesis (and distant cousin; by country) Richard Dawkins:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HWIrnZizF7Y

    Ray Comfort btw is the creator of this Christian tract;

    http://www.livingwaters.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=88&category_id=8&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=199&lang=en

    it’s the most hated because it’s the most effective..

    I noticed it featured on one of Bob’s pages one day;

    I smiled when I saw it; someone specifically mentioned it (on Bob’s page) and said something to the effect that it was the most obnoxious…again I take things like that as good signs..

    I’ve handed them out myself; even at Union Sq. small world.. I had this awesome debate there one summer with this woman attending some sort of protest- abortion I think, she left flustered…????

    What can I say, God’s given me a talent.. it’s a gift; the gift that keeps giving…

  221. Aaron

    Peggy

    Oh your God please with all the posts!
    Again I will resopond to your first one and the rest if and when I have the time, however I think you need to learn the art of conversation, barraging a forum the way you have is a sure way of making people think you’re crazy and make it impossible for anyone to respond to you.
    Is this perhaps a tactic to put people off respoinding to your posts? So you dont have to hear the truth, you can continue to close your mind and not hear the reasonable responses people would otherwise have?
    Then you could even claim a victory! No-one has the guts to reply to the mighty Peggy Miene!
    Your motives are becoming all to clear.
    I love this quote however

    “In a way, I’d actually prefer you didn’t comment”

    Priceless! Ofcourse you’d prefer that Peggy! Because I anihiate anything you possibly have to say to me!
    Me responding to your comments is how a debate works Peggy are you unaware of this? Its discussion at its finest, otherwise we’re just preaching at eachother and getting nowhere (as you have been doing to me)

    Peggy I have explained over and over again why I respond to your comments and why I feel it is important you should at least acknowledge mine.
    Unfortunatly this does not seem to have sunk in yet, and as I have stated previously the reasons are obvious, it highlights the weakness of faith and the fact that you cant explain, defend or rationalise it so anything that demonstrates how evil, silly or just plain inaccurate your faith is, are brushed to one side and forgotten about.
    Whether this is subconcious and you dont even realise it, or whether you are doing it on purpose, I have no idea.
    But I tire of continously pointing this out for you only for you to continuously behave the same way.
    In a way that you may understand though, the more you ignore me, and aimlessly preach at me, the more it shows to the world that I am “winning”.

    As to your references Peggy ive already explained why I wont accept them, theyre damned good reasons and its also why most non-bias scholars wont accept them.
    Why are you ignoring this Peggy, please give a reference from Jesus’s own time!
    Tacitus wasnt even born until 30 years after Jesus died! Josephus likewise wasnt born until after Jesus’s death!
    Please give me a reference from an actual historical non biblical eyewitness, alive when Jesus was.
    Ive already explained why this should be a piece of cake.
    Why do you gloss over these things Peggy?
    Why do I have to repeat myself?
    Why do you ignore these important points?
    Why should I have to keep asking you the same questions over and over?

    The bible was compiled 300 years after the events were suppost to have happened Peggy, not exactly winning votes with this argument are you!

    Ofcourse the bible would predict someone would come and slander its word, this was a very easy prediction to make at the time, why does this impress you? Are you that easily impressed?
    And I dont slander the bible because of anybody else, I slander it because ive read it, and its evil, horrific, genocidal, sexist, racist, gory, and so full of ridiculous tales it is obvious fiction, no other reason.
    Ive explained this several times already
    Why dont you listen?
    Why dont these things sink in?

    “That’s why I say Jesus isn’t a religion.”
    Ofcourse it is, it isnt even an original religion, the story of Jesus was stolen from many other mythologies hundreds of years prior, it is fanstastic amazing tales which if you dont believe are true you will be forever punished for, it screams relgion, we even have historical documents of the religion being formed, from ancient Romes adopting of it, the council of nicea, even the writings of the gospels themselves.

    It is a religion, no it is worse, it is a cult! You just refuse to accept this.

    “Aaron, if the Bible is so false and fictional then why does it matter whether I quote it or not?”

    Because you are using a fictional book to try and prove the existance of something in the real world, it is useless, so please refrain from quoting from it.

    As for your refernces to WW2 and 9/11, they are great examples of my own pointy not yours, we have footage, diaries, official records from those times which are under contant review.
    The gospels on the other hand werent even written until years after these events were suppost to have taken place.
    Do you see how unreliable that makes them in comparrison to events such as the ones you mentioned!
    Thank you for proving a point of mine Peggy.
    And again with how most of the stories were oral and passed down, showing exactly why these amazing stories cannot be taken at face value or as real events, ever played chinese whispers Peggy? Imagine that on the scale we’re talking, 2000 years ago! A nice bloke helping an old lady would by the end of it be able to walk on water, or turn bread to wine, or even be the son of God! Amazing things like that, which obviously are made up, become real, through oral story telling!
    Thank you for proving another one of my points, now im begginging to see another reason why you just ignore so much of what I say!

    “Christians were persecuted for along time before Constantine. I wouldn’t say they were the victors; at least at that point in history. ”

    I never said that Peggy, please actually read my posts!
    please actually read my posts!
    please actually read my posts!
    please actually read my posts!
    please actually read my posts!
    please actually read my posts!

    I said Christians were ULTIMATELY the victors…which ofcourse they were!!
    Please actually read my posts!

    “Why can’t you understand that I used to be an atheist? ”
    Because you have never really spoke about this, only briefly mentioned it, you have never given your reasons why you were an athiest, only mentioned that when you were you were mental and insane and manic etc
    I was more concerned about these deep mental issues you continue to ignore.

    The fact that you seem to have a total lack of understanding about Athiests, and even lump us in with satanitist and wiccans! Would lead me to conclude you were never an athiest at all.

    As for me not trying to save you I explained what I was doing, I will say it again:

    please actually read my posts!
    please actually read my posts!
    please actually read my posts!
    please actually read my posts!
    please actually read my posts!
    please actually read my posts!
    please actually read my posts!
    please actually read my posts!
    please actually read my posts!
    please actually read my posts!

    At the end of that post you sounded crazy again

    I dont know if ill bother to read the rest of your posts, there is far too much rambling, but i will try,so you cannot claim to be “The mighty Peggy Miene” which as anyone can see you clearly are not

    Aaron

  222. Aaron

    Peggy

    I did gloss over your attempt to refute my claim that Islam is growing fast than Christianity.
    I dont appreciate how misleading you are being so I feel a need to urgently put you straight.

    I did not deny that Christianity grew very fast, I even commented on how this was done (crusades, inqusitions, murder etc).

    However you claimed that now, in the 21st century, many Muslims are converting to Christianity.
    I conceded that was correct, but more Christians are converting to Islam, not the other way around, currently, Islam is one (if not the) fastest growing religion on the planet, certainly faster growing (currently) than Christianity.

    Again a bit of research will confirm this.

    “According to Guinness Book of World Records, Islam is the world’s fastest-growing religion by number of conversions each year”
    http://articles.cnn.com/1997-04-14/world/9704_14_egypt.islam_1_islamic-world-scarves-or-veils-prophet-mohammed?_s=PM:WORLD

    Christian currently has more adherants, I never disputed this, all I claimed was that Islam is growing faster and claiming more converts, in response to you claiming Christianity is true because of all the Muslims converting.

    I also noted that the whole argument doesnt even matter as numbers have no sense on validity.

    Please stop mis-representing Peggy, it saddens me this is what you are reduced to, its a shame your religion is so weak you have to resort to these tactics

    Ofcourse im not suprised, lets not forget you earlier openly admitted that your mind was closed to anything I had to say from the word go!

    Aaron

  223. Aaron

    Peggy

    Your last post is an embarrasment, even for you, everything Ray Comfort has ever said has been scientifically proven wrong over and over again, not only has he been informed of this, but the experiments conducted have even been demonstrated to him,
    The “Crocoduck” fiasco and explaining how such a creature would actually prove evoloution wrong has even been explained to him.
    So he is either ignorant, or a liar, either way he is an idiot, bringing him into this has reduced your credability to even lower than the very low point it was already at.
    Ray Comfort is an embarrasment to New Zealand (well the very very few who have even heard of him) which is probably why he no longer lives here.

    And he is the only person who thinks he and Dawkins are “nemesis’s”.
    Richard Dawkins has no time for Comfort and barely even acknowledges him, he compares him to a geologist having an argument with someone who claims the world is flat, it is not worth it.
    Dawkins has far too much time than to waste it on a fool like Comfort.

    Thank you for bringing Ray Comfort into this and showing us just how little your brain works

    Aaron

  224. Aaron

    Peggy

    This will do for now, in future please dont flood with a million posts, it makes it near impossible to proparly read them all and make any reasonable comment, as I suggested maybe this was your sneaky plan all along!

    I will explain my youtube antics however, maybe I jumped the gun when you didnt respond, the fact you sounded like you were done and quote “parting ways” made me feel you got scared and ran away.
    I tracked you down on youtube via your normalbobsmith comments but as I did not have an account I made one so I could comment and get your attention (for all I know this is the only reason you even replied!)
    Once the comment was posted I deleted the account, I had no need for it anymore, and you can just come back and post on this page to talk to me.

    I was even asking you to come back Peggy, are you so messed up you actually see that as me running away?
    Are you mental?

    Aaron

  225. Aaron

    Peggy

    Just saw this (aarrgghh im turning into you with the over-posting…noooo!….maybe another reason why you should stop! so i dont have to do the same!)

    like i said,, i just got this, i don’t check my e-mail everyday and i don’t even check that youtube page at all…”

    What happened to you having all the time in the world and turning this forum into your “living room”?

    Well??

    Aaron

  226. Peggy Miene

    Aaron,

    you’re not turning into me; we’re just similar… i noticed it the first day you posted with the GIMP GEENY, you did like three in a row…

    ha ha i was right…

    you’re an athiest and your not ‘free’ to be yourself… you’re a robot.. you have to look like everyone else..

    :(

    do you want to know what i realized today??? Hmmm

    i figured something out about YOU people!!!

    you guys all suck up to each other, (because you can’t say what you really think) and then to let out your frustrations (at stifling yourselves) by picking on the outsiders…

  227. Peggy Miene

    Aaron, here’s your ‘WELL’

    my e-mail and my youtube are not Bob’s site; what does my e-mail/youtube have to do with Bob’s site being my living room?? that’s like 3 different places..

    your starting to sound stupid and your scarying me..

    please stop…

    i don’t like debateing with stupid people because then i start to think that i’m must be stupid…

    please stop.. sounding stupid

    i know you’re mad and the blood is rushing to your head and you feel like you need to stop feeling the sting of public humilation but calm down… let the wave come over you and let it pass; it’s a mistake people make them, your response should be

    “I’m sorry Peggy: i’m an idiot” something like that.. it ok to admit; (i already know the secret that you are not perfect- so it’s ok- did that sound as snotty as i wantted it to?? i was really aiming for high snot… did it translate??? )

    take a deep breath, compose yourself and think before typing…

  228. Peggy Miene

    Aaron
    Not everything I post is for you- only the stuff that says Aaron on it-

    This is just more whimsical talk on my part:
    I love studying.. This was so much fun.. thanks..I wish I had more time and I wish my body had more energy to study all day long like this.. it’s definitely a passion. It makes me long to get to heaven all the more faster- to think one day I’ll just know it all… man I can’t wait. Anyways on to business:

    On to Aaron:
    Aaron writes: on Nov 27
    “Stop putting words in my mouth Peggy, I have read the bible, and know it well enough (better than most Christians) but to say I know it through and through is a drastic over-statement and I never once claimed that.”
    Then on Nov 28 writes:
    And I dont slander the bible because of anybody else, I slander it because ive read it,

    On to Dawkins:
    First of all, did you see how giddy Dawkins got when he read the dedication from Ray? Dawkins loves Ray, it’s so obvious.
    Second of all, if Dawkins is so smart then why did he sound like such a fool while Ben Stein was interviewing him in Expelled?
    “Dawkins isn’t opposed to a designer; he’s just opposed to God being the designer.” – a paraphrase on my part
    Ben Stein totally walked Dawkins into admitting that he believed in Intelligent Design
    “at some earlier time a smarter intelligence seeded life into this planet; we might find a signature; Someone Who was more intelligent than us” –a paraphrase on my part
    Yep that’s what Dawkins said.

    On to Islam:
    Did you notice that the CNN article you posted was written in 1997?
    Did you notice that the phrase “Fastest growing religion” is its own paragraph?
    The paragraph before it is talking about pilgrimage and then the paragraph after that again says that it’s the fastest growing religion with no source but a reference to Mosques being built. How is that proof? So Muslims build Mosques ok…Er… no.. !!!

    I don’t know if you know this but, first off, it’s a myth, Islam distorts the numbers and the numbers reflect birth rate; not actual converts.
    And like the CNN article states most of the converts are Africans who are forced to convert at gun point. It also says that it’s appeal is people who are poor so basically it’s like they join a gang for protection; just like atheist I would argue; you all like versions of the “Cripps and the Bloods here in America or the Nazis; a cult; I could go on. Thanks Aaron, your article helped me out considerably.
    Muslims converting to Christianity:
    That’s right; check the evidence of Christ; it is day and night.

    On to “Jesus is just a copy cat of other” – kept brief- only 1 example- if you want more; I can supply it for you- just not sure how much you want to read.

    “Adonis is reckoned an ancient deity, but the only account of his death comes from a text dated to the second century — too late to influence the story of Jesus — in which it is described how his death at the hands of a boar was mourned by worshippers in Byblos. After mourning, worshippers the next day “proclaim that he lives and send him into the air.”
    Is this a “resurrection”? It sounds much more like Roman apotheosis (exaltation via the ascent of the spirit) as stated; in any event no method of getting alive again is described. Other rituals known for Adonis seem to connect him to vegetation, and accentuate his death, with “no hint of rebirth.” J. Z. Smith, the scholar of the history of religions, notes that “classical accounts of Adonis neither mention nor describe his rising from death and that only accounts fashioned by Christian writers introduces the theme of Adonis’s resurrection.” This is too little, too late to influence the story of Jesus.” –

    On the when the Bible was compiled:
    Homers Iliad was preserved in 600 manuscripts the oldest copy being 1000 years after its original document was written. That’s even further than 300 years.
    The NT we have 5,000 Greek manuscripts;
    Just because the Bible was complied 300 years after Jesus’ death doesn’t mean anything. The Old Testament was already in existence. What you’re talking about it putting it all in one place and organizing it. So?? My son is 8 years old and I yet to organize his photo albums to completion.

    On Jesus and eyewitnesses stated from the BIBLE;
    This is what a professor named JP. Moreland wrote, he makes some really good point and he says it way better than I could ever- this is just a fraction:

    Six arguments, taken together, provide a powerful case for dating Acts at 62 to 64. First, Acts has no mention of the fall of Jerusalem in 70, and this is quite odd since much of the activity recorded in Luke-Acts centers around Jerusalem. A large section unique to Luke focuses on Jesus’ last movement to the Holy city the resurrection appearances occur around Jerusalem (see Luke 24:13), and Jerusalem plays a key role in the structure of Acts. The omission of any mention of the fall of Jerusalem makes sense if Luke-Acts was written prior to the event itself.
    Second, no mention is made of Nero’s persecutions in the mid-60s and the general tone of Acts toward the Roman government is irenic. This fits the pre-65 situation well. Neither the tone of Acts nor the omission of an account of Nero’s persecutions can be adequately explained by saying it was an attempt to appease the Roman government. It was not the nature of the early church to appease anyone-witness conflicts with Judaism and the Pharisees which are recorded in Luke’s writings.
    Third, the martyrdoms of James (61), Paul (64), and Peter (65) are not mentioned in Acts. This is also surprising since Acts is quick to record the deaths of Stephen and James the brother of John, leaders in the early church. These omissions are even more surprising when one realizes that James, Peter, and Paul are the three key figures in Acts. The silence in Acts about these deaths makes most sense if, again, we assume that Acts was written before they occurred. –end of passage

  229. Peggy Miene

    I got an idea, find me on facebook to see any youtube clips.. there was a great one i found because of Aaron.

    what a blessing in my life aaron has become and Bob,,, this is turning out to be really cool.. new heights..

    look for Peggy Miene; that’s me..

  230. Peggy Miene

    I wanted to write this earlier but I was so busy with Aaron and his constant questioning. I guess atheism leaves a lot more questions than it answers..

    Anyways..
    Today I stumbled on to (again) the Blues musician named Robert Johnson. I recognized that it’s said of him over and over again that he was tormented and he constantly feared satan coming to reap his payment.

    “As success came with live performances and phonograph recordings, Johnson remained tormented, constantly haunted by nightmares of hellhounds on his trail, his pain and mental anguish finding release only in the writing and performing of his music. Just as he was to be brought to Carnegie Hall to perform in John Hammond’s first Spirituals to Swing concert, the news had come from Mississippi; Robert Johnson was dead, poisoned by a jealous girlfriend while playing a jook joint. Those who were there swear he was last seen alive foaming at the mouth, crawling around on all fours, hissing and snapping at onlookers like a mad dog. His dying words (either spoken or written on a piece of scrap paper) were, “I pray that my redeemer will come and take me from my grave.” He was buried in a pine box in an unmarked grave, his deal with the Devil at an end.” –end of quote

    That is a sad story.. for sure..

    Then it made me think of Bob and how he writes so often about having nightmares; of course this could all be in the past- of course I don’t know; but it got me thinking as I often do.

    Why do you think that is? What is the meaning of this? Well….

    The Bible says the following about those who trust in Him:

    In peace I will lie down and sleep, for you alone, O LORD, will keep me safe. Psalms 4:8 (NLT)

    I lay down and slept, yet I woke up in safety, for the LORD was watching over me. I am not afraid of ten thousand enemies who surround me on every side. Psalms 3:5-6 (NLT)

    You can go to bed without fear; you will lie down and sleep soundly. Prov 3:24 (NLT)

    When you walk, their counsel will lead you. When you sleep, they will protect you. When you wake up, they will advise you. Prov 6:22 (NLT) – end of verses

    And this is just a small sampling of what it says about those who don’t trust in Him:

    The wicked run away when no one is chasing them, but the godly are as bold as lions. Prov 28:1 (NLT)

    Terror will grip them, terror like they have never known before. God will scatter the bones of your enemies. You will put them to shame, for God has rejected them. Psalms 53:5 (NLT) -end of verses

    Then I got to thinking about the nature of ‘friends’ in our lives and how they influence us and my thoughts led to these passages.

    With their words, the godless destroy their friends, but knowledge will rescue the righteous. Prov 11:9 (NLT)

    There are “friends” who destroy each other, but a real friend sticks closer than a brother. Prov 18:24 (NLT)

    Many will say they are loyal friends, but who can find one who is truly reliable? Prov 20:6 (NLT)
    -end of verses

    Just thinking, no conclusion.. except that I sleep pretty good… hard work makes for good and restful sleep.

    People who work hard sleep well, whether they eat little or much. But the rich seldom get a good night’s sleep. Ecclesiastes 5:12

    Anyways… goodnight…

  231. Aaron

    Peggy

    As ive said a million times all athiests are different so how can we be “sucking up to each other”?
    We a minority in the world so how can we be fitting in to be like everyone else?

    You are making even less sense than when this first started.

    The next post, how am I sounding stupid? Peggy, you said this place was your living room, you then said that you cant check these things everyday, those 2 statements contradict eachother, thats what I was getting at.
    Are you so desperate to make me look bad that you have to twist my words and make things up?
    Is it that hard, do i look that good?

    What anger and wave of public humilitation are you talking about? Surely you’ve figured out by now that this meaningless internet post cannot anger me, im fustrated at your constant avoidance of everything I say and your general close mindedness (which you…..amazingly…..still continue to do) but anger, no.
    Public humiliation? Peggy im faily sure the only people reading these posts now are yourself and I, but even if there were other people I would be (relativly) proud of my posts, likewise you should be ashamed of yours, for reasons I have explained, a hundred times now.

    The next post you type is rather long, forgive me if I dont get through it all, but the first sentance is easy to explain, I only respond to posts that you start with “Aaron”, no others, how can you not have realised this? (Oh yea thats right, you dont seem to actually take in what I say in my posts).

    Your attempts at tripping me up in this next post is shocking Peggy really do you have to lie to yourself?
    If you read all of the rest of my post re: How well I know the bible Ive stated ive read it, and know it well enough, but to say ive read it through and through is a drastic overstatement.
    Obviously I have read it though Peggy, and certainly know it well enough to slander it, this does not mean I know it through and through.
    Seriously Peggy are you infact mentally retarted? Dont be ashamed if you are, it sounds like you are and its ok (I am honestly not being a dick here Peggy I am concerned, you do sound a little bit below the IQ line here, im beginging to feel horribly embarrased debating you, if it was face to face people would probably think im just being mean and picking on the poor special kid, im so so so so sorry if this is the case…..actually please let me know if you do have any disabilities and I wont post again, you can claim victory ill leave you alone).

    Actually I feel horrible now after reading your last post there I realise you may infact have problems, let me know if you dont and i’ll carry on.
    If you do I sincerly apologise from the bottom of my heart

    Aaron

  232. Atheist

    Aaron….please read this:

    Peggy Miene had write under November 6 this:

    “Peggy Miene

    I actually am bipolar, my dad would yell at my mom all the time… growing up in a house like that does change the chemials in the brain… but it’s my lot in life… i just hope you guys read it all… ”

    Bipolar is a mental diseas and you can read about it here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder

    Aaron…..There is NOTHING wrong to have a mental diseas but I just think you should know before you go on

  233. Peggy Miene

    Atheist:

    He already knows. This is what Aaron wrote on Nov 28 right before he started repeating for the 2nd time:

    “please actually read my posts!
    please actually read my posts!”

    Aaron writes:
    Because you have never really spoke about this, only briefly mentioned it, you have never given your reasons why you were an athiest, only mentioned that when you were you were mental and insane and manic etc
    I was more concerned about these deep mental issues you continue to ignore. –end of quote

    So he knows Atheist
    But thanks for showing up and being proof that we still have an audience. Aaron doesn’t seem to think so.

  234. Atheist

    Peggy Miene

    That is okay…I didn´t know that he already knows that. There are written so much in this thread that I hadn´t could read it all.

    So I will wish you two a good debate :-)

  235. Peggy Miene

    Aaron:

    I’m not ashamed of my mental retardation. It’s working for me. Here I’ll show you how…

    Bob’s hatemail site isn’t my e-mail or my youtube.

    I’m sure the audience have been able to decipher that; unless computer tech. works differently in NZ and you have a different experience. But I don’t need to be at my e-mail or at my youtube to be at Bob’s site. For me, they are all three different places in cyber space.

    Again maybe things work differently in NZ.

    And, by living room I mean it’s my place of leisure, I can come and go as I please, play whatever song I want and lounge in here..

    Anyways; moving on.

    You are starting to sound like Dawkins when he was getting walked into admitting that he did believe in Intell. Design.

    Your pride Aaron is blinding you. You can’t even see yourself.

    Here:
    This is Dawkins sounding stupid and Ben Stein laughing at him;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoncJBrrdQ8

    JP Moreland made some really good points as far as chronology and historical events don’t you think?

    Very thorough. I thought it was very insightful. And I have you to thank for forcing me there.

    God has used you to make me better; shaper and paying attention to detial.

    I guess that what Scripture means when it says:

    If a soldier demands that you carry his gear for a mile, carry it two miles. Matthew 5:41

    Aaron, you’re awesome; I’m learning so much because of you.

    But Aaron, if you’re frustrated isn’t that the same as being vexed? And if your vexed, isn’t that the same as being angry?

    Why mince words instead of admitting what is glaringly obvious. I admitted I’m crazy.

    It’s your pride, pride is hollow and empty; it can’t stand, but love is stronger than pride.

    You should look up the synonyms for the word frustrated and for the word angry.

    In one breath you say your frustrated and in the next that you’re not angry. That’s a real contradiction.

    Here, review:
    “Surely you’ve figured out by now that this meaningless internet post cannot anger me, I’m frustrated at your constant avoidance of everything I say” –Aaron

    And you have been reading posts that don’t have your name on them. The post I wrote on Nov 27 starting with the line: “There’s something that I’ve learned about life. And it goes like this:” and it also says “threw me for a loop” – go look.

    And then the post about the Mustard seed; that wasn’t addressed to you even though I did talk about Islam in it and I referenced you in the end; but I’ve referenced you in other posts to that weren’t addressed to you. My point was about the mustard seed growing.. then I talked about Islam as a contrast.

    For someone who can write as much as you can, you should be able to pick on these things.
    And the post about Robert Johnson wasn’t addressed to you either and yet you make reference to it.

    You go easy on yourself but you want to be all harsh on me…

    Ok, now I’ll address what I mean by saying that you guys just suck up to each.

    In every Atheist forum (especially those where they ‘say’ it’s open to all) all the atheists ever do it post stuff, congratulating each other on how clever it is and when another view point comes in they shout “troll, troll” instead of breaking down the person’s arguments because they can’t.

    The only way they can have the support of the others in the ‘chat room’/ forum is to keep stroking each other’s egos. Because of this they can’t ‘disagree’ or the pack will turn on them.

    Atheists don’t have enough gumption to stand on their own. Hence the only release is to pick on the outsiders. You guys are like a cult and or a Gang which brings me to my next points:

    I tore down your CNN article about Islam ‘supposedly growing’ they were good right? Things you hadn’t considered. Birth rate and gang affiliations etc.

    Your Jesus is a copycat, Messiah (I have more on those if you want to read them- they are long)

    Your Bible being compiled etc (there’s more on that too)

    And so on and so on..

    I got more on a lot of stuff. You were great.

    And on top of all of that, instead of me being ‘frustrated’ I’m loving it.

    Gimmie more…

    I would rather write my own thoughts, though for instance I want to write something further on Nietzsche. I knew he had ended up in an insane asylum, but I didn’t know it was for his last 11 years. It was demon possession totally.

    “And he would say that horses were his friends.”

    When I heard that my heart broke; it made me think of him completely far gone in his mind being in an asylum muttering things like that to himself.

    Look what he was reduced to?

    And the worst part is how his sister would charge people money so that they could go in and see him and take pictures of him.

    That is horrific and evil Aaron. That makes me sick to my stomach. That’s that human love you were talking about there. That’s what people do.

    God really did get the last laugh didn’t He?

    When You arise, O Lord, You will laugh at their silly ideas as a person laughs at dreams in the morning. Psalm 73:20

    Bob has this sketch that he made. And there’s this person being burned in the flames and then Bob drew Jesus laughing and saying “You’re right Darlene, this is pretty funny”.. something like that, and the sketch is totally right. (Bob might be drawing his own future as we speak for all we know; only time will tell)

    If One spends a life time crying over someone, and they still don’t care to listen then there comes a time to forget them and laugh and enjoy life.

    There will be no tears in heaven. We will be laughing:

    But the Lord just laughs, for he sees their day of judgment coming. The wicked draw their swords and string their bows to kill the poor and the oppressed, to slaughter those who do right. But their swords will stab their own hearts, and their bows will be broken. Psalms 37:13-15 (NLT)

    But the One Who rules in heaven laughs. The Lord scoffs at them. Psalms 2:4 (NLT)

    He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or sorrow or crying or pain. All these things are gone forever.” Rev 21:4 (NLT)

    And then I could go on and write about King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon and how he went crazy too, but I guess those are all topics for another time.

    This is working out fine too.. Why should I be selfish; I’ll pay attention to your questions..I’m still learning just as much more actually.

    And I’m putting out a lot of information for those who are clear headed enough to understand and not going to end up in an insane asylum.

    As the Scriptures say,“I (God) will destroy the wisdom of the wise and discard the intelligence of the intelligent.” 1 Corinthians 1:19

    Anyways, dinner time..

  236. Peggy Miene

    Aaron

    so much information, so much love I’m getting from God, my eyes are so open to all the possiblities of my future and of Him and of everything.. all because of you Aaron…and i’m understanding verses so much sharper..today..

    “i can’t take it all in.. weightless in love unraveling for all that’s to come and all thats ever been”

    This is for you Aaron- i must give credit where credit is due..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naO8TyQi0-8&feature=autoplay&list=WL98D2F45094C9215F&lf=mh_lolz&playnext=5

  237. Peggy Miene

    Aaron

    I’ve got a question for you.

    You say that this verse:
    “Many will follow their evil teaching and shameful immorality. And because of these teachers, the way of truth will be slandered.” 2 Peter 2:2

    was an easy prediction to make at the time that it was written.

    The only ‘religions’ other than Christianity that make any sorts of predictions at all are Mormonism and Islam.

    Can you find me the equivalent verse in either of these other writings, Islam being top priority though, since you’ve read the Koran? This should be easy for you.

    If Christianity could make such an easy, foreseeable and convenient prediction then it should have been just as easy for the others.

    Thanks..

  238. Aaron

    Peggy

    This carries on from my last post, incase you informed me that you are indeed all there upstairs and so I can carry
    on, I realise this mean I may have sounded a bit insulting for thinking you were retarded, I do (on some level)
    apologise for that, but seriously reading your posts from my end that is honestly how you came across.
    Anyway I wrote this out in notepad and saved it just incase I would be able to post it so to continue:

    I like how you ignored the Guinness book of records entry but never mind, that CNN article was just one link I added to
    show if you do some reasearch the information is there, im not going to spoonfeed you Peggy the facts are out there
    if you look for them, if you dont want to hear it just because ignoring truth is easier thats up to you.
    Study Peggy, as you claim to love doing.

    Dawkins doesnt care about Comfort Peggy, and often simply refers to him as “The Bannana man” and as for Ben Stein,
    seriously? Do you know how much misleading info and editing and in some cases outright lying went into that
    DVD, if you have to twist the truth so much to make your point then your point isnt worth sharing.
    Ben Stein fits this catagory, the fact that you seem to admire him actually explains alot about your behavior
    towards me. (I would think that if you are doing this on purpose then you would realise your faith must be false,
    perhaps it really is all subconcious).

    I also find it funny that you dont like how many Muslims are converted at gunpoint, when essentially this is how Christianity
    became so popular in the first place.
    Also Islam is the fastest growing religion in the western world (where these gun point convertions dont happen)
    blowing your argument out of the water, and as I have stated over and over and over again it doesnt matter!
    The numbers of a religion or how fast it is growing says nothing about how true it is!!!

    OK Gods like Jesus, off the top of my head:

    Krishna
    Odysseus
    Osiris
    Dionysus
    Hercules
    Zoroaster
    Attis
    Horus
    Mithras
    Glycon
    Bacchus
    Romulus

    Possbily (arguably I admit) Isis and even to some extent Buddah!

    Need I go on?

    My point about the compilation of the bible was that it was compiled centuries after the gospels were written for the
    sole purpose of forming a religion, and that should be treated as highly suspect, nothing more.
    I also like how you have ignored the fact that the gospels themselves were also written years after Jesus died! Let alone
    whilst these events were taking place, thats the icing on this particular cake!

    The rest of your post…..so despite all the rambling, no…you dont have a single non-biblical, historical eyewitness
    account of Jesus from when he was alive…..not one…..despite how easy this would have been had he been real,
    try and explain it away all you want but it will not stand to reason, amazingly you actually refered to the bible in
    your argument! (LOL!) and I can assure you there are lots of accounts of nero taken from when he was alive (unlike jesus)

    “the main purpose of citing the Bible is to educate our audience about what the Bible really says.”

    But what is says is fiction
    Thanks

    “I guess atheism leaves a lot more questions than it answers.. ”

    Ofcourse it does?! As it should?! seriously you see this as an insult? What the hell? And you claim to have once
    been an athiest!
    The beauty in the universe is in the “I dont knows” and the study and mystery and awe in trying to find out!
    Not just saying “God did it” and leave it at that! We should always ask questions, its how we find answers Peggy!
    Even if it takes along time, even if those answers yield yet more questions, wonderful! bring them on!
    saying “I dont know” and continuing to search for truth is much better than “God did it”
    So your statement that Athiesm leaves alot more questions than answers is very true, and most (though not all, as I
    said we’re all different) Athiests would agree, and even be flattered, by this statement.
    We’re forever searching Peggy, forever studying, learning, progressing, evoloving and knowing more and more and more.
    But hey, you can have your “God did it” if it makes you feel nice.

    And oh look, more babbling and bible quotes.

    Peggy you are impossible to have a rational, reasonable debate with, I really wish you could see that but I grow weary of
    repeating myself and always having to point out the obvious to you!
    I think I may just go through all my posts and list every single question I want you to answer, that you have previously
    ignored….although I doubt it would be worth it as you would probably just ignore them again and continue to preach
    Even now when you seem to be doing better, you still manage to ignore those questions you just dont like (the ones i
    placed there knowing full well you would be unable to answer).

    Astounding

    Aaron

  239. Aaron

    Athiest

    Thanks for the info, there is nothing wrong with mental illness, I didnt claim there was, I just felt a bit bad incase I accidently insulted Peggy.
    Bipolar in any instance does not affect intelligence (as far as I know, heck I could be wrong!)

    I have not read alot of Peggys posts so this slipped my attention, and I know I keep claiming Peggy needs to read my posts so I can see how this sounds hypocritical, but in fairness when all this started I was only posting one or 2 things at a time, Peggy on the other hand was posting probably nearer to 15! Ofcourse I have not read everything Peggy has said, theres far to many posts, its all to sporadic and to be fair (Peggy I hope your reading this) she has a tendancy to bable, ramble and preach which adds nothing to the debate and is very draining.

    But thanks for your input :-)
    And it seems I was wrong Peggy, other people clearly are reading these posts!

    Aaron

  240. Aaron

    Peggy, im going to change tactics with you and answer your posts from last to first, rather than first to last.
    For no other reason than it is a change and would make the process seem less tedious.

    Yes it was an easy prection to make Peggy, in Christianities early days Christians were supressed, tortured, even murdered, simply for being Christian, I know full well you are aware of this, when Christianity (through the Roman Empire) began to rise to dominance, other religions were bound to be jealous.
    Even in the early days of Christianity, others were bound to speak out against it to attempt to lead people away.
    So yes Peggy, a very very easy prediction to make.

    As ive also stated it does not apply to me either way, I follow no-one, I am an athiest for my own reasons, I cant believe in God, even if I wanted to (early on in my athiesm I did pray and try to believe in God trust me, I didnt want the idea of no afterlife to be true).
    Another point regarding your quote, do you then feel that anyone who isnt Christian to be evil and immoral?

    You again twist my words Peggy in the EXACT SAME WAY you did when I mentioned the bible.
    I told you I have read the Koran, this is true, and I know it, not half as well as I know the bible, but i know it, I never once said I was well versed.
    Why do you do these things Peggy?
    Why do you twist my words?

    Dont even get me started on Mormonism, and just because other religions didnt make the same prediction (which I admit they easily could have) what difference does it make?
    How does it make the prediction any less meaningless?
    Just because the others didnt make this prediction why does it validate Christianities claim that it did?
    The bible also claims that Damascus would be reduced to rubble and no longer stand (Isaiah 17:1) because at the time, given the political turmoil of the era and geographical location, that was a fairly safe bet.
    Amusingly though Damascus still stands so that obvious prediction didnt even come true!

    Another good example of how predictions and prophecies mean nothing and can be easily manipulated is to just read the prophecies of Nostradamus.

    Either way Islam does predict false prophets, you can see the comparisons of these predtictions between Christianity and Islam here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_prophet

    And as I stated I do not wish to get into a debate about bible quotes, it is fiction to me, the next time you quote me a bible quote I will give you a quote from Harry Potter to prove the existance of hogwarts to show you how silly what you are doing is and how it does not prove anything.

    Aaron

  241. Aaron

    Peggy

    Just as a sidenote Buddism and Hinduism also have predictions and prophecies and im pretty sure more religions do aswell.
    Judasim certainly does! Seeing as Christianity tries to claim it fulfilled them all!
    So I dont know where you got this nonsense that Christianity, Mormonism and Islam are the only religions that make predictions?!

    Aaron

  242. Aaron

    Peggy

    Re: Your dawkins comment, please explain how I am blind and walking into a trap or whatever it is you are claiming?
    Obviously im too blind to see it so clarify, I have no idea what you are talking about.
    And oh look, no comments allowed on that you tube video! shocking! funny how the athiest videos always allow comments!

    Dawkins is talking about Trans-Permia, and only commenting on how it is possible (which it is) nothing more
    Stein is a decietful moron and if you dont understand Trans-Permia then I (and probably dawkins) are laughing at you (and Stein).

    Stein only makes himself look stupid in that video for completly not understanding what Dawkins is saying.

    Besides ive already told you the truth about Stein and his DVD, you once again ignored what I had to say.

    Please give me one eyewitness who was historical and non-biblical and alive at the same time as jesus

    Please give me one eyewitness who was historical and non-biblical and alive at the same time as jesus

    Please give me one eyewitness who was historical and non-biblical and alive at the same time as jesus

    Please give me one eyewitness who was historical and non-biblical and alive at the same time as jesus

    Is this sinking in Peggy? Stop avoiding it, I would be easy if Jesus was real, you keep ignoring this.

    Please give me one eyewitness who was historical and non-biblical and alive at the same time as jesus

    “But Aaron, if you’re frustrated isn’t that the same as being vexed? And if your vexed, isn’t that the same as being angry?”

    Er…..no?!…..Im more than capable of feeling fustrated and not angry, they are different emotions Peggy, I feel for you if you can only feel them together.

    Peggy, I can honestly say I only read the posts addressed to me, im not sure what you are talking about with the mustard seed, perhaps in response to some of your posts I bring up things that may respond to different posts but it isnt intentional, infact I didnt even realise I had done it.
    Call it a happy co-incidence.

    “In every Atheist forum (especially those where they ‘say’ it’s open to all) all the atheists ever do it post stuff, congratulating each other on how clever it is and when another view point comes in they shout “troll, troll” instead of breaking down the person’s arguments because they can’t.”

    Really? Dont think ive ever been to an athiest forum like that, please provide a link.

    Peggy, you do realise that Nietzsche was insane right? And I dont mean me slagging him off calling him that he actually was certifiably insane, look it up, problem solved.

    “That is horrific and evil Aaron. That makes me sick to my stomach. That’s that human love you were talking about there. That’s what people do. ”

    You use one example of cruelty (couldve just used nazis but whatever) and claim that humans have no love?
    Is this how your God has taught you to view humanity?
    How sad for you Peggy :-(
    Its nice that you ignore all the cruel, genocidal, racist, sexist and murderous things your god does though hey!

    “There will be no tears in heaven. We will be laughing:”

    I guess this sums up your morality…..frightning, your religion sounds disgusting.

    Out of interest why do you keep mentioning insane Athiests?! You must realise there are far more sane athiests than mental ones, by quite an incredibally large margin.
    And as for insane Christians, well theres lots of them!
    So I dont get what point you are making here?
    Even if every Athiest on Earth was insane, how would that prove Christianity correct?
    All the evidence points to there being no God, so if all the athiests were nuts it would only mean the truth drives you insane.
    But as this isnt the case then I dont really know what you are getting at.

    “This is working out fine too.. Why should I be selfish; I’ll pay attention to your questions..I’m still learning just as much more actually.”

    Pay attention to my questions…..really…..maybe could you acknowledge more of them, go back to the earlier ones, you know, the difficult ones you dont want to answer because you cant.

    More bible quotes, lovely

    I put this now at Aaron 200 Peggy 0 (Bob must be on like 1000 or something lol)

    Aaron

  243. Peggy Miene

    Aaron

    I don’t mind if you call me retarded. It lets me know that I’m winning. All that stuff is just personal attacks. You should just handle the issues.

    I can spoon feed you if you would like.

    See Aaron your good for me, you’ve made me focus..

    Guinness Book of World Records:
    If you read the full quote from wiki it says that these ‘converts’ are in Asia; which only helps my argument that these conversions are happening in places where they are either forced to convert out of fear that the Islams inflict on the people or these conversions happen because these poorer people can be affiliated with a group to get protection and/or pay/ financial support of some sort. It’s a gang. Nothing more.

    The last sentence in this wiki article: which can be found under the heading “Claims to be the fastest-growing religion” and scroll down to the “Islam” part states a myth.

    Here is the Myth:
    According to the Christian magazine titled The Plain Truth (Issue 2 February 1984) and also published in an edition of the Readers Digest magazine, shows statistics of the growth of the major world religion, with Islam at the highest increase at 235% with Christianity second place at 46%. This data was acquired by comparing numbers from 1934 to 1984, across half a century. –end of quote

    The reason that this is a myth is because:
    “Muslim’s claim that their growth rate is 235 percent and 47 percent for Christianity. This statistic came from the Readers Digest Almanac and Yearbook 1983, and represents 235 percent increase over 50 years. Muslims always leave off the 50 year fact to make it appear they are going 235% every year. A simple review of the readers Digest study shows that the growth rate of Islam vs. Christianity is directly linked to the birth rate in Third World countries where Islam dominates and not actual conversions to each religion. Christianity has always been larger than Islam. These statistics from Readers Digest are over 20 years old. Further, we do not consider readers digest to be an authority on such matters. Why will Muslims not quote real authoritative statistics from certified research groups who show Islam is not the fastest growing religion in 3/4′s of the worlds countries. –end of quote

    This is a quote taken from a website titled Islam: Truth or Myth?

    (I would post the link but Bob’s site thinks I’m spamming so my post might not go thru and I don’t want to risk that- this is much better – I think I’ll just post another post with just the links. Hopefully that will work; it did last time)

    To find the website type in “Islam fastest growing myth.” You’ll find a lot more websites on this subject; but I only have so much space; very interesting reads though.

    Now on to the Crusades; people always want to mention the Crusades; when I took a history course I was under the impression that a major component to the Crusades was that Islam was spreading and taking over Jerusalem; and the Christians (Catholics actually/ a Constantinian hybrid ) were combating that spread.

    From what my feeble mind understands as well, is that the Muslims were forcing people to convert and it wasn’t the ‘Christians’ who were converting anyone, just merely combating the spread of Islam.

    Also since we are on that subject though; let’s compare the Crusades/ the Inquisitions, to all the atheistic regimes throughout history?

    The following is a quote by Aaron Taylor written in Nov, 2009:
    Lenin, Mao, Stalin, and Pol Pot; the body count for atheism in the 20th century alone far surpasses the body count for crimes committed in the name of Christ. D’Souza also rightly pointed out that atheism—more specifically the Marxist brand—was crucial to the philosophies of these barbaric dictators as opposed to the supposedly religious conflicts that are often really about land and resource distributions (like the Catholic/Protestant conflict in Northern Ireland and the Israeli/Palestinian conflict). –end of quote.

    I, myself attribute it all to ‘man is corrupt’ and everything gets corrupted. All systems do when people start running them.

    Christianity didn’t become ‘so popular’ by forcing people to convert; it became popular by word of mouth. That’s how I spread in the first place; you know that Aaron. Then the story goes that Constantine had a vision and the words “by this sign you will win.” Constantine meshed his pagan beliefs with Christianity; nothing more.

    Like I’ve said before; and this is my own little mind’s idea; that I see this as a way for Christianity to spread. I do believe that Constantine did have a vision that was from God/ God’s messengers and that it was a means to allow a new phase in world history and a new phase in the spread of Christianity and to stop the persecutions of Christians.

    If you read the Bible though, the Jewish scripture if you want to mince words which is the Old Testament, you will see that this has happened before.

    Saul was a King who had visions of God and he ultimately abandoned God; there are other examples of this.

    Now this brings me to my next point/ your next point.

    Whether I believe that non- Christians are evil.

    I believe all humanity is evil; by nature predominately but when God imparts His Spirit onto His people they practice His ways.

    It’s going to sound like I’m shifting gears here but I’m not, please be patient enough to try to follow along and hear what I’m saying. Thanks.

    I’m only using one example- because there are too many.

    The story of a concubine being gang raped by the whole tribe of Benjamin.

    That night some of the leading citizens of Gibeah surrounded the house, planning to kill me, and they raped my concubine until she was dead.6 So I cut her body into twelve pieces and sent the pieces throughout the territory assigned to Israel, for these men have committed a terrible and shameful crime.7 Now then, all of you—the entire community of Israel—must decide here and now what should be done about this!” Judges 20:5-7 (NLT)

    That story isn’t in the Bible/ Old Testament/ the Torah (whatever you want to call it) because God approves of it.

    The story is in the bible because it happened, it’s a part of history and I personally think to show case how evil man is- period.

    The difference between, the Bible, Torah etc is that these accounts don’t try to make people look good at all. They just lay out the facts. Note King David, the best King Israel ever had, set up and killed one of his best warriors to get his wife; that doesn’t make David look too good and yet it’s in there. Sampson the strongest man in the world brought down (constantly) by his affections/lusts for these women, pagan women mind you; not Israelites mind you. If you read the story, it says explicitly why this was the case.

    Because God deemed it so, to use as an opportunity to bring down the Philistines:

    But Samson told his father, “Get her for me! She looks good to me.” His father and mother didn’t realize the LORD was at work in this, creating an opportunity to work against the Philistines, who ruled over Israel at that time. Judges 14:3-4 (NLT)

    Now, on to a new subject:

    I like how you told me a bit of why you are an atheist, I’ll tell you a bit of mine.
    I grew up Catholic like I said. When I was really young and went to church I really loved God. I even wanted to be a nun. But as life happens my parents went to church less and less. In school we were taught about how we evolved and this sounded logical to me, I started believing in science more and more. My dad is an atheist and we would have debates. I’ve always been a thinker type, I analyzed everything.
    I remember in my adolescences once analyzing how similar it would be to kiss a girl if I had my eyes closed. That arguably there would be no difference between me kissing a girl as opposed to kissing a boy. I would even use the Bible and refute it. I also remember, being at my best friend’s house (a Catholic school kid) and telling her father that “Jesus isn’t even a real person” and him telling me, actually no, he was, look him up. I remained an atheist for a long long time after that though anyways.
    My mother dabbled in astrology during this time and I guess one can attribute my atheist to a lack of Christendom in the household, for lack of a better term.
    I do also remember though (and I don’t know where this knowledge came from) but I guess when I was about 18-19 (this is when I started leaving atheism) that I did have a deep respect for Jesus. I remember thinking I would like to be like Him, He was never afraid of anyone and He always said what He thought. And He seemed to me to be a person of real substance.
    My atheism started to break, like I said, in my late teens after a so many years of mental illness, in and out of hospitals and suicide attempts and anorexia/bulimia and a really bad break up with someone who totally used me up; it was bad.
    Most Satanists don’t tell you that they are Satanists, that’s something a person finds out the hard way.
    Satanists are like atheist because Satanist don’t believe in God (most times); they believe in themselves which is exactly in line with satan who fell in love with himself. They hate what they perceive as ‘dogma.’
    I personally believe and have experienced that true individualism is given to us by God. I’m exactly who I am supposed to be, I’m living it out as we speak; the best of me. I truly follow no person. I could go on but I won’t.

    Maybe your prayers are being answered right now Aaron. Of course you didn’t go deeper as to what your prayers were; so I’ll just leave it at that.

    Now on to the next subject:

    ‘gods’ like Jesus: I’ll do one today: it’s too long otherwise.

    Krishna:

    “There is a tradition, though not to be found in the Hindoo scriptures, that Krishna, like Christ, was crucified…Indeed, there are found in India images of crucified gods, one of whom apparently is Krishna, important information not to be encountered in mainstream resources such as today’s encyclopedias.” For good reason. There is no evidence that these images were constructed prior to Christian influence in India…if these images exist at all.
    As Martin Palmer shows in his book The Jesus Sutras, Christian missions reached India and China early — around the 5th-7th centuries. Copycat theorists stand against every scrap of relevant scholarship — not just “encyclopedias” — when they try to make it so that the influence was the other way around. Let’s run down some of the assertions, as this one from the classic critical author Doane.
    In the earlier copies of Moor’s Hindu Pantheon, is to be seen representations of Crishna (as Wittoba), with marks of holes in both feet, and in others, of holes in the hands. In Figures 4 and 5 of Plate 11 (Moor’s work), the figures have nail-holes in both feet. Plate 6 has a round hole in the side; to his collar or shirt hangs the emblem of a heart (which we often see in pictures of Christ Jesus)…
    The reference here is to a book written in the 1800s. Many of Moor’s pictures were, as can be gathered from the introduction written by Moor to his book and from other parts of his book itself [such as the specific pages cited from the book in this essay], drawn by Mr. Haughton of the Royal Academy [1810 copy of Hindu Pantheon page ix], from original statues, pictures, and engravings on monuments.
    The “Plates” are pages of drawings, many of them with more than one drawing on them. Separate drawings on each plate are called figures. Most of the Plates and figures on them discussed in this essay were drawn from statues.
    If you want to know why Doane’s work is not a standard textbook for courses in religion, this will tell you well enough. The figures 4 and 5 in Plate 11 are identified by Moor as Vishnu and Lacshmi; figures 6 and 7 feature Vishnu, not Krishna, as Wittoba, and there are marks in the right breast and left foot only which are identified as chakra, not nail-holes. Figure 6 (not Plate 6, which is presumably not what Doane meant) does, as noted, have a mark on the right breast (not “a round hole in the side”) which looks something like an epaulet, not a round hole.
    There is a heart-shape around the neck, but what “pictures of Christ Jesus” have this we’d like to know about (it may be Catholic “sacred heart” pictures, but that is a more modern invention, not an apostolic one). We’d also like to know the dates of these alleged pictures, and of the figures Moor offers, but you won’t catch critics digging up any of that voluntarily. As it is, since Moor drew this material only a couple of hundred years ago, this would be a hard case for the copycatters — even if they did have their interpretation on the ball.
    (We do find that that earlier editions of the H.P. have details on some figures which in later editions are barely visible or completely gone, but this is more likely an accident from copying an older book than a conspiracy, since we’re finding all of the old editions with no problem!) –end of quote

  244. Peggy Miene

    Aaron:

    Links to back up my quotes:
    Wiki: Claims to be the fastest-growing religion “Islam”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_to_be_the_fastest-growing_religion#Islam

    Quote by Aaron Taylor written in Nov, 2009:
    http://www.articlesbase.com/religion-articles/dinesh-dsouza-the-new-atheism-and-constantinian-christianity-1475747.html

    Islam is not the fastest growing religion in the world:
    http://islamoscope.wordpress.com/2008/08/13/islam-not-the-fastest-growing-religion-in-the-world-and-other-myths-of-islam/

    Krishna full article:
    http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/krishna02.html

  245. Peggy Miene

    Aaron

    i tried to post a links post but it didn’t go thru. When my posts with (a lot of) links don’t go thru they give me a note stating this

    “Please Note: Your comment is awaiting moderation.”

    and then they rarely go thur

    earlier, a few of my posts to Steve Bentley for example, were like this- with the same note, and they went thur after a long while..

    but while i’m here though i must say i understand these verses so much better today because of you. – i’m not putting you down, i’m complimenting you.. no sarcasim.. not an inkling..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3895qfby300&feature=fvst

    The Beatitudes
    “God blesses those who are poor and realize their need for Him, for the Kingdom of Heaven is theirs.
    God blesses those who mourn, for they will be comforted.
    God blesses those who are humble, for they will inherit the whole earth.
    God blesses those who hunger and thirst for justice, for they will be satisfied.
    God blesses those who are merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
    God blesses those whose hearts are pure, for they will see God.
    God blesses those who work for peace, for they will be called the children of God.
    God blesses those who are persecuted for doing right, for the Kingdom of Heaven is theirs.

    “God blesses you when people mock you and persecute you and lie about you and say all sorts of evil things against you because you are my followers. Be happy about it! Be very glad! For a great reward awaits you in heaven. And remember, the ancient prophets were persecuted in the same way. Matt 5:3-12 (NLT)

  246. Peggy Miene

    Aaron

    As far as the non-biblical eyewitness for Jesus

    I’ve answered that several times but you don’t want to accept it.

    Aren’t WW2 survivors being interviewed currently?

    I think that the history channel’s WW2 in HD just came out premiered in 2009.

    In that documentary they interview eyewitnesses of that war/ era.

    A war the ended in 1945; If you do the math it’s roughly 75 years ago.

    So are their stories less credible?

    No in fact, I bet their memoires of the event are probably more pronounced since they’ve had time to dwell on it and in some cases have been living with the ghosts of it.

    I personally don’t believe that Jesus would have been so important to the Romans for them to chronicle Him as He lived; not to the Romans.

    They probably thought He was some troubling making Jewish nut; as we’ve both already stated.
    The Romans would have also had to have an understanding of the Israeli God; which they didn’t.

    Weren’t they pantheists for the most part?

    If you take into consideration how large the Romans army must have been and then compare those initial Roman soldiers who came to Jesus and believed; I’m sure the percentage is really small. Even for the small amount of Greeks who initially believed and followed after Jesus as mentioned in the book of John.

    Also, take into consideration that any Romans archives may have been destroyed by battles and opposing armies taking plunder.

    I know that Hitler (as a current example) gathered together a lot of art work thru out Europe and then tried to destroy a lot of the history to rewrite history anew.

    Even Napoleon had a portrait made of him healing someone to aggrandize himself.

    This explanation would fit your Nero thing.

    This is how humans are. That why when you read these old myths that to some extent maybe based on real events are blown up; you said it yourself biased.

    But if you read God’s word; honestly you will see the difference.

    I used to read the Bible to find fault with it. Obviously when a person sets out to find fault with something that what they will find.

    Even in the Youtube clip I posted yesterday about the Islams converting, one of the guys interviewed said that the stark difference between Islam and Christianity is love.

    Muslims are taught to hate, to carry around animosity ALL THE TIME; to hate their enemies.

    While Christians are taught the complete opposite; to love our enemies.

    As far as Dawkins’ and Ben Stein, I think what is going on is that they are older and Ben Stein isn’t interrupting Dawkins on purpose.

    First off Ben Stein is listening and he understands that Dawkins essentially (at its core) is talking about Intelligent Design.

    That’s why Stein says – a paraphrase on my part
    “Oh, so Dawkins does think that Intell. Design is possible; it’s God that he doesn’t like; aliens fine, God, No”

    That’s the point. Stein is letting Dawkins run off at the mouth and hang himself; and since Dawkins can’t see his own foul, Stein lets everyone else see it.

    Dawkins gripe isn’t with Intelligent Design, it’s with God.

    Dawkins won’t even debate Creationist anymore.. what do you make of that?

    And I know about Nietzsche, (I had written about him in previous posts to Steve as well as to you- hence the part about me wanting to write FURTHER) you misunderstood me let me clarify I DO UNDERSTAND THAT HE WENT INSANE; I’VE KNOWN THAT FOR A WHILE NOW.

    And I wrote ‘I KNEW HE HAD ENDED UP IN AN ASULUM’, what I didn’t know was that it was for the span of 11 years.

    I keep mentioning insane atheist to show that they go crazy eventually; God cannot be mocked.

    God wins in the end; always. He is the One in control of this whole thing.

    God is a God of Justice;

    Do you think for example that Dawkins calling Comfort ‘bannan man’ is a term of endearment (although I do think Dawkins is warming up to Comfort)?

    Dawkins is insulting Comfort, much like you insult me over and over again.

    Is this the humanity that is so great?

    When God judges He has a reason. Wickedness, injustice. You an example of it, Aaron. You are really harsh on me and light on yourself.

    You call me rude, but you these last posts of yours are nothing but insults over and over and over again. I mean I can hear how mad you are and the anger and the hate. You should listen to yourself.

    You should take a god hard look at yourself.

    But you are actually softening me.. This is part of God’s plan. The world grinds us Christians down; our hearts turn to flesh, we become able to feel.

    I used to be you, I have compassion for you. I actually like you very much despite everything.

    Forever starts here and now. I’ve already inherited the earth; nothing here can touch me. I hope one day you can understand these things

    you keep trying to ‘attack’ me instead of listening.. You seemed very respectfull and courteous to “Atheist”
    you gave him a smiley face and eveything; you gave Bob the honor of attributing to him 1000 points.

    and you say that atheists don’t suck up to each other? and you say that you don’t follow any persons. are you really and individual?

    you sound like your in a cult; to me, a gang, like the nazis.. a wolf pack.. think about it..

    Anyways I didn’t proof read..

    If you want an atheist forum “like that’ go to ‘Athiest vs. Theists’ on facebook.

  247. Peggy Miene

    Then this message came to Zechariah from the LORD: “This is what the LORD of Heaven’s Armies says: Judge fairly, and show mercy and kindness to one another. Do not oppress widows, orphans, foreigners, and the poor. And do not scheme against each other. “Your ancestors refused to listen to this message. They stubbornly turned away and put their fingers in their ears to keep from hearing. They made their hearts as hard as stone, so they could not hear the instructions or the messages that the LORD of Heaven’s Armies had sent them by His Spirit through the earlier prophets. That is why the LORD of Heaven’s Armies was so angry with them. “Since they refused to listen when I called to them, I would not listen when they called to Me, says the LORD of Heaven’s Armies. As with a whirlwind, I scattered them among the distant nations, where they lived as strangers. Their land became so desolate that no one even traveled through it. They turned their pleasant land into a desert.” Zech 7:8-14 (NLT)

    Therefore, I will judge each of you, O people of Israel, according to your actions, says the Sovereign LORD. Repent, and turn from your sins. Don’t let them destroy you! Put all your rebellion behind you, and find yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O people of Israel? I don’t want you to die, says the Sovereign LORD. Turn back and live! Ezek 18:30-32 (NLT)

    Don’t keep looking at my sins. Remove the stain of my guilt. Create in me a clean heart, O God. Renew a loyal spirit within me. Do not banish me from Your Presence, and don’t take your Holy Spirit from me. Psalms 51:9-11 (NLT)

    A Promise of Restoration:
    They will be My people, and I will be their God. And I will give them one heart and one purpose: to worship Me forever, for their own good and for the good of all their descendants. Jer 32:38-39 (NLT)

    “When the people return to their homeland, they will remove every trace of their vile images and detestable idols. And I will give them singleness of heart and put a new spirit within them. I will take away their stony, stubborn heart and give them a tender, responsive heart, so they will obey My decrees and regulations. Then they will truly be My people, and I will be their God. But as for those who long for vile images and detestable idols, I will repay them fully for their sins. I, the Sovereign LORD, have spoken!” Ezek 11:18-21 (NLT)

    “But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day,” says the LORD. “I will put My instructions deep within them, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be My people. And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their relatives, saying, ‘You should know the LORD.’ For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will know Me already,” says the LORD. “And I will forgive their wickedness, and I will never again remember their sins.” Jer 31:33-34 (NLT)

    “Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. Your filth will be washed away, and you will no longer worship idols. And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will take out your stony, stubborn heart and give you a tender, responsive heart. And I will put My Spirit in you so that you will follow My decrees and be careful to obey My regulations. Ezek 36:25-27 (NLT)

    All the believers were united in heart and mind. And they felt that what they owned was not their own, so they shared everything they had. Acts 4:32 (NLT)

    Clearly, you are a letter from Christ showing the result of our ministry among you. This “letter” is written not with pen and ink, but with the Spirit of the living God. It is carved not on tablets of stone, but on human hearts. 2 Cor 3:3 (NLT)

  248. Peggy Miene

    Aaron:

    I like this:

    “My point about the compilation of the bible was that it was compiled centuries after the gospels were written for the
    sole purpose of forming a religion, and that should be treated as highly suspect, nothing more.” –Aaron

    Every discipline is eventually put together in a systematic way for the sole purpose of starting something.

    Football, police enforcement, philosophy, astronomy, art, science, music, theology, history; on and on.

    Science is a religion now; and so is atheism.

    Questions are great Aaron, I ask a lot of them, but I ask expecting an answer and when I get that answer I accept the answer and move on to other questions to increase my learning.

    A mocker seeks wisdom and never finds it, but knowledge comes easily to those with understanding. Proverbs 14:6

    If you need wisdom, ask our generous God, and He will give it to you. He will not rebuke you for asking. But when you ask Him, be sure that your faith is in God alone. Do not waver, for a person with divided loyalty is as unsettled as a wave of the sea that is blown and tossed by the wind. Such people should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. James 1:5-7 (NLT)

  249. Peggy Miene

    here’s a nother one,

    this one reminds me of God.. a song like this could only be talking about One Being… at least to me… at least when one gets to know Him:

    Do you think, that if Christianity was “made up” that these early disciples would’ve come up with a religion where they would make the Christian church into a female, and say that they were going to be married to Jesus in heaven? Hmmm???

    “Hidden Place”

    Through the warmthest
    Cord of care
    Your love was sent to me

    I’m not sure
    What to do with it
    Or where to put it

    I’m so close to tears
    And so close to
    Simply calling you up
    I’m simply suggesting

    We go to the hidden place
    That we go to the hidden place
    We go to the hidden place
    We go to a hidden place

    Now I have
    Been slightly shy
    And I can smell a pinch of hope
    To almost have allowed once fingers
    To stroke
    The fingers I was given to touch with
    But careful, careful
    There lies my passion, hidden
    There lies my love
    I’ll hide it under a blanket
    Lull it to sleep

    I’ll keep it in a hidden place
    I’ll keep it in a hidden place
    Keep it in a hidden place
    Keep it in a hidden place

    He’s the beautifullest
    Fragilest
    Still strong
    Dark and divine
    And the littleness of his movements
    Hides himself
    He invents a charm that makes him invisible
    Hides in the air
    Can I hide there too?
    Hide in the air of him
    Seek solace
    Sanctuary

    In the hidden place
    In a hidden place
    In a hidden place
    We’ll stay in a hidden place
    Ooohh in a hidden place
    We’ll live in a hidden place
    We’ll be in a hidden place
    In a hidden place

  250. Randy

    Wow! Peggy is surely disturbed. She thinks Nietchze was demon possessed and that Robert Johnson made a deal with the devil? And as for Expelled, who among us was not mortified to learn that the lovable monotone teacher from Ferris Bueller, and “Win Ben Stein’s Money” was a full blown crackpot. Any objective view of the editing of Dawkins’ interview will show that the film makers acted dishonestly. If it is so “the Truth” then why so much deception and trickery? I always thought that if we atheists used such tactics it would be glaringly obvious and our position would fail, yet they use said tactics and it never hurts them, they just deny, ignore, and then parrot their favorite platitudes. Peggy has serious issues beyond her bizarre narcissism. The bible quotes, the song lyrics, the endlesssssssssssssss rambling posts. It is insane on a scale like we rarely see on this site. Why is she so obsessed with Normal Bob? Why does she think she prevails when the guy Aaron literally evicserated her over and over? Without the crazy beliefs she is still the online version of the annoying bitch that will just not shut up! God! Now I’m putting my fingers in my ears and chanting “Shut the fuck up already!”

  251. Peggy Miene

    I just want to write and this is going to be good. And since I’m disturbed I guess I free reign;
    thanks Randy for your input. I’m relentless, mighty according to Aaron and astonishing according to Bob. Consider me like a drill or a plow. You guys are hard; you need someone just as hard. I guess Randy wants a piece of the action too; he wants in.

    What’s the line in Michael Jackson’s Billie Jean song?

    “She told me her name was Billie Jean, as she caused a scene
    Then every head turned with eyes that dreamed of being the one
    Who will dance on the floor in the round” –Michael Jackson

    Randy you flatter me, you’ve read so much, more than you needed to.. well thanks for showing up..

    I said, ‘Plant the good seeds of righteousness, and you will harvest a crop of love. Plow up the hard ground of your hearts, for now is the time to seek the Lord, that He may come and shower righteousness upon you.’ Hosea 10:12

    Coming Judgment against Judah:
    This is what the Lord says to the people of Judah and Jerusalem:“Plow up the hard ground of your hearts! Do not waste your good seed among thorns. Jeremiah 4:3

    I’ve been inspired.

    You guys are never satisfied. When I say life is a living hell because I have to watch the people I love possible go to hell, then you guys say that’s wrong.

    Then when I explain that in Heaven we (us Christ ones) we will be done with the crying and we will laugh you guys say “that’s terrible”

    You guys want everything. You guys are unjust, and unfair.

    You deal with unfair weights.

    The Lord detests double standards; he is not pleased by dishonest scales. Proverbs 20:23

    Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers. Proverbs 21:15

    Evil people don’t understand justice, but those who follow the Lord understand completely. Proverbs 28:5

    If I spend a life time crying over someone and begging them to listen, while they get to supposedly ‘live it up’ and deny the truth and they get take and steal what ever they want with no regards for me; shouldn’t the be a day when the tables turn?

    Shouldn’t I get a time for peace and rest from that?

    Aren’t they enjoying their ‘peace’ now?

    How many people do you know have things stolen from them; the thieves essentially get away with murder and what of the victims?

    What is it that the character Sweeny Todd says in the epiphany song?

    “They all deserve to die.
    Tell you why, Mrs. Lovett, tell you why.
    Because in all of the whole human race
    Mrs Lovett, there are two kinds of men and only two
    There’s the one they put in his proper place
    And the one with his foot in the other one’s face
    Look at me, Mrs Lovett, look at you.

    Now we all deserve to die
    Even you Mrs. Lovett…even I
    Because the lives of the wicked should be made brief
    For the rest of us death will be a relief
    We all deserve to die.” –Sweeny Todd

    I choose not to settle.
    I want the best!!
    I want Heaven!!!
    I want Real!!!
    I want it all!!!
    And I want it forever!!!

    I’m sorry; I’m not cheap, I’m not a sell out no matter how much the sell outs try to entice me.

    You can’t clone me into becoming one of you.

    And I’m not going to apologize for thinking that the people I love and care about are just as important.

    You guys live and walk around but, you don’t have any understanding; you don’t know what’s going on or how perceive it..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YISE0wk9XbY

    “Gone” lyrics:
    They all deserve to die.
    Tell you why, Mrs. Lovett, tell you why.
    Because in all of the whole human race
    Mrs Lovett, there are two kinds of men and only two
    There’s the one they put in his proper place
    And the one with his foot in the other one’s face
    Look at me, Mrs Lovett, look at you.

    Now we all deserve to die
    Even you Mrs. Lovett…even I
    Because the lives of the wicked should be made brief
    For the rest of us death will be a relief
    We all deserve to die.

  252. Peggy Miene

    Randy,

    you’re so funny, i love how you show up to be tortured; a masochist; you must have guilty conscience you come here looking for a beat down.

    I just have alot more bowels i guess.

    Fools’ words get them into constant quarrels; they are asking for a beating. Proverbs 18:6

    i don’t deny that i’m narcissistic; i know that about myself, we’ve already gone over that, I’m full of myself. I’ve been this way since i was little. I know that i’m smart.. i’m so smart people think i’m reatarded because they can’t understand what i’m saying.

    this is common knowledge, Einstein was a terrible student, and he turned out to be a genius.. people thought he was absolutely crazy when he came out with his theory of relativity

    not until he found an astronomer to help him take a photo of what he was talking about; I saw it on the history channel, a biography on him. It was really good.

    And Newton didn’t being talking at the same age as other children. People thought he was retarded. Thank God he was around during the Nazi eugenics program or else he would have been eliminated from the get go.

    “Your ancestors refused to listen to this message. They stubbornly turned away and put their fingers in their ears to keep from hearing. They made their hearts as hard as stone, so they could not hear the instructions or the messages that the LORD of Heaven’s Armies had sent them by His Spirit through the earlier prophets. zech 8:11-13

  253. Peggy Miene

    this is that Sweeny Todd thing that didn’t go thru;

    it was orginally addressed to Aaron but, i guess it’s for everyone who shows up to pretend they don’t read what i write.. you know the liars.

    Aaron

    Thank you I had a lovely holiday.. I didn’t get to read as much as I would have liked though.

    Your absolutely right; I did spend a lot of time praying.. I’ve been praying for you; I’ve been wasting my time in a futile act on you; a stranger who talks down to me. It was and is a labor of love.

    I’m glad you brought up Bob’s argument. I would say Jesus lost 33 years on earth caring about people who mostly treated Him like crap and disregarded Him… I’m sharing in His suffering; so I can say I know the feeling.

    Prayer isn’t only about making something happen; it’s mostly to understand what’s going on. To slow down long enough to get a better view of the situation at hand; to let God lead me in the right direction. He can see everything from His perspective; up above it all; He’s the One Who knows you; not me; but thur prayer I can get a better insight into you. I can feel you.

    You’re so hard hearted. How can you have any kind of ‘great relationship with any women’ as hard as you are? Nothing penetrates you I can tell? So I think you’re lying when you say that you’ve had healthy relationships.

    I think you’re the one who is defensive. What are you protecting yourself from; having a ‘feeling’? Being touched?

    Why not just believe in Jesus if it’s just a ‘loophole?’ If that’s all that God requires why not just do it instead of complaining about it?

    I’m sure you’ve concocted worse schemes to keep from paying for something when you were legally supposed to; things like parking tickets for example; people do stuff like that all the time; they look for scapegoats.

    I wish you would stop thinking you were so smart and be a real person for a while.

    Well, after your little temper tantrum I’m going to go back to what I was originally going to write
    If you thought I was talking crazy before this will confirm it.

    This is really going to seem like it doesn’t go with anything we’ve been dialoguing about.

    Just categorize it as me chasing a butterfly; oh no; better yet, we’ll keep with what you contributed “I’ve got my fingers in my ears singing aloud… la la la la la”

    But before I start; something I’ve always noticed between men and women. Men always call women crazy and silly. Anyways…

    I got inspired by how you told me you were British.

    Actually it turns out I had been dwelling on this soundtrack (Sweeny Todd- the remake with Johnny Depp) for a while now coincidentally.

    As I said; everyday is a new day; everyday a new thing happens; something that confirms that God is real and supernaturally working in my life. This is me sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for the next exciting thing to happen and it always does.

    Another funny thing is that on the day you kept complaining about me ignoring you.

    I was.

    All of a sudden I just got this feeling to ignore you; like an experiment.

    It was mean of me but I had a sense that it would drive you mad and I wanted to see how you would react but to tell you the truth it was hard for me; I can’t easily let an argument go by at all and I don’t like being mean to people or ignoring them because I don’t like it when it’s done to me.

    Then you said that I was being “rude” which I saw as a great opportunity to expose your hypocrisy; so I’m glad I waited even though it was pretty short comparatively speaking.
    It seems that God always give me some sort of heads up; you turned out to be special…i don’t know special for what but at least you stand out.

    Like I’ve already said; lately I’ve been fixated on the Sweeny Todd soundtrack.

    It’s one of my favorite movies. I’m finding it hard to write about it because it makes me feel so vulnerable; I’m probably blowing it up in my head more than what it really is though.

    I relate to it so much; I relate to all the characters. I love the whole soundtrack; I couldn’t pick just one song or one character to identify with..

    All the characters are like different angles of the same person; me. That’s the great thing about art; we get to express out true stories.

    Your optimism reminds me of the young sailor Anthony.

    This is how I hear you sometimes:

    “I have sailed the world beheld its wonders from the Dardanelles, to the mountains of Peru, But there’s no place like London!”

    This is me-sometimes:

    You are young…Life has been kind to you…You will learn. There’s a hole in the world like a great black pit and the vermin of the world inhabit it and its morals aren’t worth what a pig can spit and it goes by the name of London. At the top of the hole sit the privileged few Making mock of the vermin in the lower zoo turning beauty to filth and greed…I too have sailed the world and seen its wonders, for the cruelty of men is as wondrous as Peru but there’s no place like London!
    There’s a hole in the world like a great black pit and it’s filled with people who are filled with sh**! And the vermin of the world inhabit it!”-end of quote

    I’ve traveled a lot too. I’ve done a little bit of everything… I’ve never jumped off of anything though; even though I had my chance; I could have jumped off of an aircraft carrier into the ocean, but I got too scared so one of the officers let me do it from a different part of the ship. It’s exciting to see snipers poised to shoot at a shark just in case.

    Anyways…

    My “London”, is New York/ New Jersey; the place of all my shadows and ghosts.

    It’s people who make the world crappy; not God; I wish more people were like God.

    This world is Satan’s creation (after the fall); this is the best he can do; creating a sea of pain…

    Everyone fighting all the time; people stabbing each other in the back, everyone out for themselves, everyone feels as if they are owed something instead of giving something. Everybody lies, everybody just takes, and everyone is a hustler.

    You brought up an example of how Muslims and Buddhist are pleading for God’s mercy and He still sends them to hell..

    I don’t think there are many people pleading for God’s mercy at all; I think it’s the other way around.

    I think its God pleading for people to hear Him. But people don’t want to listen. Then He just leaves them alone to do whatever they want. He leaves them to turn away from Him.

    The people of the world are full of crap.

    Sweeny is a perfect example of someone taking vengeance into their own hands. Not going to God but trying to do it all on his own. He gets screwed by Judge Turpin initially as a naïve young man and then his perspective being limited as it is ultimately, royally screwed by Mrs. Lovett.

    I like the song “My Friends” when Sweeny Todd sings to his knives.

    I think a lot of people who hear it like the song because it’s all gruesome but I hear it in a different way. I hear his loneliness. His single mindedness; he can’t hear anything but his own thoughts and remembering everything he lost. “I know, I know, you’ve been locked out of sight all these years just like me” he sings to his knives.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a72KYMQnDyk

    That’s what being in prison did to him Aaron and also being unjustly accused…

    I imagine how he must have gotten to prison and at first thinking to himself how this misunderstand will get cleared up and he’d get sent back home only to realize that there was never a misunderstanding at all and that is was all just a plot to get rid of him. Over the course of years his spirit slowly breaking down, losing all hope. He finally manages an escapes, gets back home to find only his knives waiting for him; the only remnants of his old life.

    Then you have Mrs. Lovett and her loneliness, another person in his life who exploits him for her own gain; a savvy business woman dropping bad ideas into Sweeny’s head that feed into the wrong direction his mind is already going.

    She sees him as two things: someone she used to have a crush on and then later as a way to get wealthy, but she never really cared about him because she never told him the truth thereby helping him. She was never a real friend.

    So she seduced him with her pretty speech and enticed him with her flattery. Proverbs 7:21
    In the end, people appreciate honest criticism far more than flattery. Proverbs 28:23

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn7yde54YUY&feature=related

    There are so many dynamics going on within the movie:

    You have Johanna; Todd’s daughter; “maddened by the stars” wanting to break free from the oppressive Judge Turpin.

    The crazy old woman ‘Lucy’ Todd’s wife; who is the only one who can smell the danger because she lived it; she knows mischief when she sees it no matter how ‘crazy’ she has become. I especially like how there is a lyric in the song “Poor Thing” about her ‘not coming down from her tower’ as if she were stuck up because she had standards; she had to be tricked by Judge Turpin to get what he wanted and then shove her off as ‘daft’.

    The aspect of this whole new generation carrying on the baggage of the older generation; Toby, Johanna, Anthony.

    I get a sense that Anthony as optimistic as he is, finds the love of his life Johanna but he’s got to deal with all her problems now.. as beautiful as she is, she’s a bit damaged and he’s taken her on as his own.. this is where he will learn the true wonders of the world… man’s corrupt nature.

    Toby, an orphan/ street kid who has to make some kind of living and ends up with anyone who will take him whether they treat him nice or not; he doesn’t have much choice in the world; he ends up really loving and caring for Mrs. Lovett all the while she’s plotting to kill him because he’s catching on to what’s really going on; although on the wrong trail.

    Mr. Pirelli an adult orphan himself who takes out his aggressions on Toby;

    and the whole dynamic of Toby, hustling the people on the street with his infomercial and how Todd and Mrs. Lovett try to sabotage Mr. Pirelli’s bogus “business” by trying to throw off Toby and his hustle.

    anyways this is what i wanted to write; it’s the best i could get it..

  254. Peggy Miene

    randy

    you gave me an great opprotunity; this is a beautiful song with the word ‘Narcissus’ in it. i have a lot of ideas, just waiting to get out there so thanks for serving…

    i have a question though, am i still a narcissus if people come to watch me? I mean wouldn’t that give a reason for the narcissism. Maybe you guys shouldn’t come and watch me. Maybe your making me conceited

    maybe your the reason i’m a narcissuses; or maybe there really is something of substance to watch here.. hmmm.. i’ll have to ponder that one some more.

    anyways back to the song and the lyrics.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfCkmiQ0nDs&list=HL1322704568&feature=mh_lolz

    lyrics..

    Music of the Troubadours – Can vei la lauzeta mover (written by Bernard de Ventadour)

    (When I see the lark joyfully moving its wings against the sun’s rays, and falling because of the sweetness that enters its heart, ah! a great envy comes upon me of all those who I see happy. I am astonished that my heart does not melt with desire.

    Alas! I thought I knew so much about love, and I know so little, because I cannot stop loving the one from whom I will never obtain anything. She has taken my heart, myself, herself, and the whole world, and has left me with nothing but yearning and a languishing heart.

    I no longer have power over myself, and am no longer my own person, from the moment when she lets me look into her eyes, that mirror that pleases me so. Mirror, since I am mirrored in you, my sighs have caused my death, for I am lost just as Narcissus lost himself in the fountain.

    I despair of women; never more shall I trust them. As once I exalted them, now shall I cast them down. Since I see that not one of them is for me against she who destroys and confounds me, I doubt and mistrust them all, since I well know they are all the same.

    And in this I see that my lady is very much a woman, and that is why I criticize her. For she does not want that which she should want, and that which she is forbidden, she does. I am fallen very low, and I have acted like the fool on the bridge. And I don’t know why this has happened to me, unless it’s because I tried to mount too high.

    Since nothing works any more with my lady – neither prayers nor pity nor my rights concerning her; and since it no longer pleases her that I love her, I will never more say it to her. And so I take my leave and go away from her. She has killed me, and I respond to her with death. And I leave, since she doesn’t retain me, I the unhappy one, into exile, I know not where.)

  255. Peggy Miene

    randy

    opps, typos,

    about Newton, i meant to say:
    “Thank God he WASN’T around during the Nazi eugenics program or else he would have been eliminated from the get go.

    and i wanted to add.. what about Beethoven, they’ve been doing DNA studies on some hair of his that someone had (i think she cut it off/ or it was some sort of gift- i don’t know, some people are into that kind of stuff i guess)

    but some seem to think that he was bi-polar as well. actually it makes sense.; his fathere was abusive toward him.. humanity..

  256. Peggy Miene

    i love this song.. fitting

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPTsmswQVwg

    I Said You Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’
    You Got To Be Startin’ Somethin’
    I Said You Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’
    You Got To Be Startin’ Somethin’
    It’s Too High To Get Over (Yeah, Yeah)
    Too Low To Get Under (Yeah, Yeah)
    You’re Stuck In The Middle (Yeah, Yeah)
    And The Pain Is Thunder (Yeah, Yeah)
    It’s Too High To Get Over (Yeah, Yeah)
    Too Low To Get Under (Yeah, Yeah)
    You’re Stuck In The Middle (Yeah, Yeah)
    And The Pain Is Thunder (Yeah, Yeah)

    [1st Verse]
    I Took My Baby To The Doctor
    With A Fever, But Nothing He Found
    By The Time This Hit The Street
    They Said She Had A Breakdown
    Someone’s Always Tryin’ To Start My Baby Cryin’
    Talkin’, Squealin’, Lyin’
    Sayin’ You Just Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’

    [Chorus]
    I Said You Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’
    You Got To Be Startin’ Somethin’
    I Said You Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’
    You Got To Be Startin’ Somethin’
    It’s Too High To Get Over (Yeah, Yeah)
    Too Low To Get Under (Yeah, Yeah)
    You’re Stuck In The Middle (Yeah, Yeah)
    And The Pain Is Thunder (Yeah, Yeah)
    It’s Too High To Get Over (Yeah, Yeah)
    Too Low To Get Under (Yeah, Yeah)
    You’re Stuck In The Middle (Yeah, Yeah)
    And The Pain Is Thunder (Yeah, Yeah)

    [2nd Verse]
    You Love To Pretend That You’re Good
    When You’re Always Up To No Good
    You Really Can’t Make Him Hate Her
    So Your Tongue Became A Razor
    Someone’s Always Tryin’ To Keep My Baby Cryin’
    Treacherous, Cunnin’, Declinin’
    You Got My Baby Cryin’

    [Chorus]
    I Said You Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’
    You Got To Be Startin’ Somethin’
    I Said You Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’
    You Got To Be Startin’ Somethin’
    It’s Too High To Get Over (Yeah, Yeah)
    Too Low To Get Under (Yeah, Yeah)
    You’re Stuck In The Middle (Yeah, Yeah)
    And The Pain Is Thunder (Yeah, Yeah)
    It’s Too High To Get Over (Yeah, Yeah)
    Too Low To Get Under (Yeah, Yeah)
    You’re Stuck In The Middle (Yeah, Yeah)
    And The Pain Is Thunder (Yeah, Yeah)
    You’re A Vegetable, You’re A Vegetable
    Still They Hate You, You’re A Vegetable
    You’re Just A Buffet, You’re A Vegetable
    They Eat Off Of You, You’re A Vegetable

    [3rd Verse]
    Billie Jean Is Always Talkin’
    When Nobody Else Is Talkin’
    Tellin’ Lies And Rubbin’ Shoulders
    So They Called Her Mouth A Motor
    Someone’s Always Tryin’ To Start My Baby Cryin’
    Talkin’, Squealin’, Spyin’
    Sayin’ You Just Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’

    [Chorus]
    I Said You Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’
    You Got To Be Startin’ Somethin’
    I Said You Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’
    You Got To Be Startin’ Somethin’
    It’s Too High To Get Over (Yeah, Yeah)
    Too Low To Get Under (Yeah, Yeah)
    You’re Stuck In The Middle (Yeah, Yeah)
    And The Pain Is Thunder (Yeah, Yeah)
    It’s Too High To Get Over (Yeah, Yeah)
    Too Low To Get Under (Yeah, Yeah)
    You’re Stuck In The Middle (Yeah, Yeah)
    And The Pain Is Thunder (Yeah, Yeah)
    You’re A Vegetable, You’re A Vegetable
    Still They Hate You, You’re A Vegetable
    You’re Just A Buffet, You’re A Vegetable
    They Eat Off Of You, You’re A Vegetable

    [Ad-Lib]
    If You Cant Feed Your Baby (Yeah, Yeah)
    Then Don’t Have A Baby (Yeah, Yeah)
    And Don’t Think Maybe (Yeah, Yeah)
    If You Can’t Feed Your Baby (Yeah, Yeah)
    You’ll Be Always Tryin’
    To Stop That Child From Cryin’
    Hustlin’, Stealin’, Lyin’
    Now Baby’s Slowly Dyin’

    [Chorus]
    I Said You Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’
    You Got To Be Startin’ Somethin’
    I Said You Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’
    You Got To Be Startin’ Somethin’
    It’s Too High To Get Over (Yeah, Yeah)
    Too Low To Get Under (Yeah, Yeah)
    You’re Stuck In The Middle (Yeah, Yeah)
    And The Pain Is Thunder (Yeah, Yeah)
    It’s Too High To Get Over (Yeah, Yeah)
    Too Low To Get Under (Yeah, Yeah)
    You’re Stuck In The Middle (Yeah, Yeah)
    And The Pain Is Thunder (Yeah, Yeah)

    [Ad-Lib]
    Lift Your Head Up High
    And Scream Out To The World
    I Know I Am Someone
    And Let The Truth Unfurl
    No One Can Hurt You Now
    Because You Know What’s True
    Yes, I Believe In Me
    So You Believe In You
    Help Me Sing It, Ma Ma Se,
    Ma Ma Sa, Ma Ma Coo Sa
    Ma Ma Se, Ma Ma Sa,
    Ma Ma Coo Sa

  257. Randy

    Peg, You did not give me a beat down nor did you torture me, instead you posted reams of rambling bullshit, making no point whatsoever (except that you love yourself and consider yourself to be smart, a true sign that you are not.) You did not address anything I wrote. Worse, you are a liar. you wrote this will be good and it was anything but. I skipped over all your lyrics and worthless bible quotes, so I didn’t really waste much time. I actually have a job. Nobody cares if you love Sweeney Todd or Michael Jackson (pedophile), the reason people are paying attention right now is because you are fucking weird! Like someone suffering a severe meltdown. By the time this posts you will probably have snuck in five more pages of nonsense. Your words are worthless, you can’t spell, and forgive the cliche but you need to get a life, you fucking asshole!

  258. Peggy Miene

    i just realized something, spelling; that’s another discipline that has a systematic organization to it.
    You’ve got syllables. phonics. Yep, everything gets compiled and organized eventually.
    Pretty normal.

  259. Peggy Miene

    Randy, please don’t copy Aaron.. you guys are all the same.. oh my goodness; you i will ignore, i can already tell you don’t have an orginal thought..

    this is my life… i don’t have a job, i’m a house wife..

    what i want to know is why does Bob, need people to stick up for him? why do you guys crawl out of the wood work to defend him?

    he’s 42 years old, he’s a big boy, and very big boy. and this is his open forum and he like to observe “amazingstrangers”..

    if i’m weird and in the middle of a meltdown then i guess i qualify;

    my words can’t be that worthless if you have paid such close attention to know that i can’t spell; and that you come to check up on me and see if i’ve responded to you..

    your like a guy who likes to smell sh**; you’re telling me i stink but you want to come and smell it; that’s stupid… that’s says more about you than it does about me; i’m the narcissuses remember; i like my crap..

    Adj. 1. amazing – surprising greatly; “she does an amazing amount of work”; “the dog was capable of astonishing tricks”
    astonishing
    surprising – causing surprise or wonder or amazement; “the report shows a surprising lack of hard factual data”; “leaped up with surprising agility”; “she earned a surprising amount of money”
    2. amazing – inspiring awe or admiration or wonder; “New York is an amazing city”; “the Grand Canyon is an awe-inspiring sight”; “the awesome complexity of the universe”; “this sea, whose gently awful stirrings seem to speak of some hidden soul beneath”- Melville; “Westminster Hall’s awing majesty, so vast, so high, so silent”
    awe-inspiring, awesome, awing, awful
    impressive – making a strong or vivid impression; “an impressive ceremony”

    amazing
    adjective astonishing, striking, surprising, brilliant, stunning, impressive, overwhelming, staggering, sensational (informal), bewildering, breathtaking, astounding, eye-opening, wondrous (archaic or literary), mind-boggling, jaw-dropping, stupefying, gee-whizz (slang), startling It’s amazing what we can remember with a little prompting.

  260. Peggy Miene

    this is awesome; i feel it; its another wave coming.. come on guys new blood

    hate mail is GREAT mail…

    completely unprovoked hate mail.. but please don’t just copy Aaron… that’s just corny; be original…

    prove to me that you are not just clones of each other… i’ve got some engery to burn off..

  261. Peggy Miene

    Joan of Arc, some say, was a loon but wouldn’t you say that she made some progress?

    Compare and contrast..

    Nietzsche was ‘normal’ went crazy ended up in an asylum.

    Joan of Arc, was ‘crazy’ got martyred, and became a saint.

    Hmmm?

    You have to give her that; she fought for God.

    This is my favorite trailer; it’s rare.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJkn348dDe4

    the Bible makes you guys angry, I can tell, is it like holy water on a vampire?

    The Holy Word purifies.. it stings, it’s a double edged sword..

    I read this today:

    I like it:

    “Asa cried to the Lord his God, O Lord, there is none besides You to help, and it makes no difference to You whether the one You help is mighty or powerless. Help us, O Lord our God! For we rely on You, and we go against this multitude in Your Name. O Lord, You are our God; let no man prevail against You! 2 Chronicles 14:11
    Amplified Bible (AMP)

    And then this is what happened:

    So the Lord smote the Ethiopians before Asa and Judah, and the Ethiopians fled.
    13Asa and the people with him pursued them to Gerar; and the Ethiopians were overthrown, so that none remained alive; for they were destroyed before the Lord and His host, who carried away very much booty.
    14And they smote all the cities round about Gerar, for the fear of the Lord came upon them. They plundered all the cities, for there was much plunder in them.
    15They smote also the cattle encampments and carried away sheep in abundance and camels; and they returned to Jerusalem.
    2 Chronicles 14:12-15
    Amplified Bible (AMP)

    pretty right? i know i love the Word so much… it’s the best..

  262. Peggy Miene

    Wrestle with God while you still have the chance. Reason with Him now..

    If you can’t stand up to men, how will you ever be able to stand up to God..

    This left Jacob all alone in the camp, and a Man came and wrestled with him until the dawn began to break. When the Man saw that he would not win the match, he touched Jacob’s hip and wrenched it out of its socket. Then the Man said, “Let Me go, for the dawn is breaking!” But Jacob said, “I will not let You go unless You bless me.”
    “What is your name?” the Man asked. He replied, “Jacob.” “Your name will no longer be Jacob,” the Man told him. “From now on you will be called Israel, because you have fought with God and with men and have won.” Gen 32:24-28 (NLT)

    No wonder you can’t believe! For you gladly honor each other, but you don’t care about the honor that comes from the One Who alone is God. John 5:44 (NLT)

    Many people did believe in Him (Jesus), however, including some of the Jewish leaders. But they wouldn’t admit it for fear that the Pharisees would expel them from the synagogue. For they loved human praise more than the praise of God. John 12:42-43 (NLT)

    Don’t be clones. Followers. I know that the people are listening; that’s why the wolves have to come out.. because they are scared of losing their followers. The wolves want to keep you down; they don’t want you to live.. they want to make you their slaves and live off of?

    This is what’s going on.. it’s the same story over and over and over again. You think they are soo cool something to look up to right?

    That’s what they want you to think. They numb you with flash… but they are hollow, no substance..when it’s really time to stick for something they will sell you out in a heartbeat..

    “It’s a ruse; a cunning attempt to trick you.” – clerks

    If any of you wants to be My (Jesus) follower, you must turn from your selfish ways, take up your cross, and follow Me. If you try to hang on to your life, you will lose it. But if you give up your life for my sake, you will save it. And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul? Is anything worth more than your soul? Matt 16:24-26 (NLT)

  263. Peggy Miene

    Reprint; typos only two, but what the hell; I wanted this one to be perfect..

    Wrestle with God while you still have the chance. Reason with Him now..

    If you can’t stand up to men, how will you ever be able to stand up to God..

    This left Jacob all alone in the camp, and a Man came and wrestled with him until the dawn began to break. When the Man saw that he would not win the match, he touched Jacob’s hip and wrenched it out of its socket. Then the Man said, “Let Me go, for the dawn is breaking!” But Jacob said, “I will not let You go unless You bless me.”
    “What is your name?” the Man asked. He replied, “Jacob.” “Your name will no longer be Jacob,” the Man told him. “From now on you will be called Israel, because you have fought with God and with men and have won.” Gen 32:24-28 (NLT)

    No wonder you can’t believe! For you gladly honor each other, but you don’t care about the honor that comes from the One Who alone is God. John 5:44 (NLT)

    Many people did believe in Him (Jesus), however, including some of the Jewish leaders. But they wouldn’t admit it for fear that the Pharisees would expel them from the synagogue. For they loved human praise more than the praise of God. John 12:42-43 (NLT)

    Don’t be clones. Followers. I know that the people are listening; that’s why the wolves have to come out.. because they are scared of losing their followers. The wolves want to keep you down; they don’t want you to live.. they want to make you their slaves and live off of you?

    This is what’s going on.. it’s the same story over and over and over again. You think they are soo cool something to look up to right?

    That’s what they want you to think. They numb you with flash… but they are hollow, no substance..when it’s really time to stick up for something they will sell you out in a heartbeat..

    “It’s a ruse; a cunning attempt to trick you.” – clerks

    If any of you wants to be My (Jesus) follower, you must turn from your selfish ways, take up your cross, and follow Me. If you try to hang on to your life, you will lose it. But if you give up your life for my sake, you will save it. And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul? Is anything worth more than your soul? Matt 16:24-26 (NLT)

  264. Peggy Miene

    admit who you are; When He asks you for your name: tell God the truth;

    if you’re a liar, admit it; if you’re a coward, admit it, stop pretending. you’re not getting away with anything, your as naked in front of Him as Adam and Eve were in the garden… you can’t cover it up with a little fig leaf.. with your self-righteousness…

    so quick to call someone out; to murder; so defensive..what are you hiding? you think your better than me? you think your a perfect speller? you think your not crazy?

    it’s easy to say when you got a whole clan around.. what are you like when your by yourself?

    who are you in the dark when no one is around?

    i’ve already admitted who i am to God, I’m with Him.. who’s on your side? No one because you don’t believe in anything.. and if you keep going that way when you need someone NO ONE is going to come.. idiots…

  265. Peggy Miene

    this is that Sweeny Todd thing that didn’t go thru; this is my third time posting; those links.. – oh well i took them out…

    it was orginally addressed to Aaron but, i guess it’s for everyone who shows up to pretend they don’t read what i write.. you know the liars.

    Aaron

    Thank you I had a lovely holiday.. I didn’t get to read as much as I would have liked though.

    Your absolutely right; I did spend a lot of time praying.. I’ve been praying for you; I’ve been wasting my time in a futile act on you; a stranger who talks down to me. It was and is a labor of love.

    I’m glad you brought up Bob’s argument. I would say Jesus lost 33 years on earth caring about people who mostly treated Him like crap and disregarded Him… I’m sharing in His suffering; so I can say I know the feeling.

    Prayer isn’t only about making something happen; it’s mostly to understand what’s going on. To slow down long enough to get a better view of the situation at hand; to let God lead me in the right direction. He can see everything from His perspective; up above it all; He’s the One Who knows you; not me; but thur prayer I can get a better insight into you. I can feel you.

    You’re so hard hearted. How can you have any kind of ‘great relationship with any women’ as hard as you are? Nothing penetrates you I can tell? So I think you’re lying when you say that you’ve had healthy relationships.

    I think you’re the one who is defensive. What are you protecting yourself from; having a ‘feeling’? Being touched?

    Why not just believe in Jesus if it’s just a ‘loophole?’ If that’s all that God requires why not just do it instead of complaining about it?

    I’m sure you’ve concocted worse schemes to keep from paying for something when you were legally supposed to; things like parking tickets for example; people do stuff like that all the time; they look for scapegoats.

    I wish you would stop thinking you were so smart and be a real person for a while.

    Well, after your little temper tantrum I’m going to go back to what I was originally going to write
    If you thought I was talking crazy before this will confirm it.

    This is really going to seem like it doesn’t go with anything we’ve been dialoguing about.

    Just categorize it as me chasing a butterfly; oh no; better yet, we’ll keep with what you contributed “I’ve got my fingers in my ears singing aloud… la la la la la”

    But before I start; something I’ve always noticed between men and women. Men always call women crazy and silly. Anyways…

    I got inspired by how you told me you were British.

    Actually it turns out I had been dwelling on this soundtrack (Sweeny Todd- the remake with Johnny Depp) for a while now coincidentally.

    As I said; everyday is a new day; everyday a new thing happens; something that confirms that God is real and supernaturally working in my life. This is me sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for the next exciting thing to happen and it always does.

    Another funny thing is that on the day you kept complaining about me ignoring you.

    I was.

    All of a sudden I just got this feeling to ignore you; like an experiment.

    It was mean of me but I had a sense that it would drive you mad and I wanted to see how you would react but to tell you the truth it was hard for me; I can’t easily let an argument go by at all and I don’t like being mean to people or ignoring them because I don’t like it when it’s done to me.

    Then you said that I was being “rude” which I saw as a great opportunity to expose your hypocrisy; so I’m glad I waited even though it was pretty short comparatively speaking.
    It seems that God always give me some sort of heads up; you turned out to be special…i don’t know special for what but at least you stand out.

    Like I’ve already said; lately I’ve been fixated on the Sweeny Todd soundtrack.

    It’s one of my favorite movies. I’m finding it hard to write about it because it makes me feel so vulnerable; I’m probably blowing it up in my head more than what it really is though.

    I relate to it so much; I relate to all the characters. I love the whole soundtrack; I couldn’t pick just one song or one character to identify with..

    All the characters are like different angles of the same person; me. That’s the great thing about art; we get to express out true stories.

    Your optimism reminds me of the young sailor Anthony.

    This is how I hear you sometimes:

    “I have sailed the world beheld its wonders from the Dardanelles, to the mountains of Peru, But there’s no place like London!”

    This is me-sometimes:

    You are young…Life has been kind to you…You will learn. There’s a hole in the world like a great black pit and the vermin of the world inhabit it and its morals aren’t worth what a pig can spit and it goes by the name of London. At the top of the hole sit the privileged few Making mock of the vermin in the lower zoo turning beauty to filth and greed…I too have sailed the world and seen its wonders, for the cruelty of men is as wondrous as Peru but there’s no place like London!
    There’s a hole in the world like a great black pit and it’s filled with people who are filled with sh**! And the vermin of the world inhabit it!”-end of quote

    I’ve traveled a lot too. I’ve done a little bit of everything… I’ve never jumped off of anything though; even though I had my chance; I could have jumped off of an aircraft carrier into the ocean, but I got too scared so one of the officers let me do it from a different part of the ship. It’s exciting to see snipers poised to shoot at a shark just in case.

    Anyways…

    My “London”, is New York/ New Jersey; the place of all my shadows and ghosts.

    It’s people who make the world crappy; not God; I wish more people were like God.

    This world is Satan’s creation (after the fall); this is the best he can do; creating a sea of pain…

    Everyone fighting all the time; people stabbing each other in the back, everyone out for themselves, everyone feels as if they are owed something instead of giving something. Everybody lies, everybody just takes, and everyone is a hustler.

    You brought up an example of how Muslims and Buddhist are pleading for God’s mercy and He still sends them to hell..

    I don’t think there are many people pleading for God’s mercy at all; I think it’s the other way around.

    I think its God pleading for people to hear Him. But people don’t want to listen. Then He just leaves them alone to do whatever they want. He leaves them to turn away from Him.

    The people of the world are full of crap.

    Sweeny is a perfect example of someone taking vengeance into their own hands. Not going to God but trying to do it all on his own. He gets screwed by Judge Turpin initially as a naïve young man and then his perspective being limited as it is ultimately, royally screwed by Mrs. Lovett.

    I like the song “My Friends” when Sweeny Todd sings to his knives.

    I think a lot of people who hear it like the song because it’s all gruesome but I hear it in a different way. I hear his loneliness. His single mindedness; he can’t hear anything but his own thoughts and remembering everything he lost. “I know, I know, you’ve been locked out of sight all these years just like me” he sings to his knives.

    That’s what being in prison did to him Aaron and also being unjustly accused…

    I imagine how he must have gotten to prison and at first thinking to himself how this misunderstand will get cleared up and he’d get sent back home only to realize that there was never a misunderstanding at all and that is was all just a plot to get rid of him. Over the course of years his spirit slowly breaking down, losing all hope. He finally manages an escapes, gets back home to find only his knives waiting for him; the only remnants of his old life.

    Then you have Mrs. Lovett and her loneliness, another person in his life who exploits him for her own gain; a savvy business woman dropping bad ideas into Sweeny’s head that feed into the wrong direction his mind is already going.

    She sees him as two things: someone she used to have a crush on and then later as a way to get wealthy, but she never really cared about him because she never told him the truth thereby helping him. She was never a real friend.

    So she seduced him with her pretty speech and enticed him with her flattery. Proverbs 7:21
    In the end, people appreciate honest criticism far more than flattery. Proverbs 28:23

    There are so many dynamics going on within the movie:

    You have Johanna; Todd’s daughter; “maddened by the stars” wanting to break free from the oppressive Judge Turpin.

    The crazy old woman ‘Lucy’ Todd’s wife; who is the only one who can smell the danger because she lived it; she knows mischief when she sees it no matter how ‘crazy’ she has become. I especially like how there is a lyric in the song “Poor Thing” about her ‘not coming down from her tower’ as if she were stuck up because she had standards; she had to be tricked by Judge Turpin to get what he wanted and then shove her off as ‘daft’.

    The aspect of this whole new generation carrying on the baggage of the older generation; Toby, Johanna, Anthony.

    I get a sense that Anthony as optimistic as he is, finds the love of his life Johanna but he’s got to deal with all her problems now.. as beautiful as she is, she’s a bit damaged and he’s taken her on as his own.. this is where he will learn the true wonders of the world… man’s corrupt nature.

    Toby, an orphan/ street kid who has to make some kind of living and ends up with anyone who will take him whether they treat him nice or not; he doesn’t have much choice in the world; he ends up really loving and caring for Mrs. Lovett all the while she’s plotting to kill him because he’s catching on to what’s really going on; although on the wrong trail.

    Mr. Pirelli an adult orphan himself who takes out his aggressions on Toby;

    and the whole dynamic of Toby, hustling the people on the street with his infomercial and how Todd and Mrs. Lovett try to sabotage Mr. Pirelli’s bogus “business” by trying to throw off Toby and his hustle.

    anyways this is what i wanted to write; it’s the best i could get it..

  266. Peggy Miene

    When I was a kid there were three things that I had want to do.
    1. Be a nun
    2. Go to Russia
    3. Join the army

    And a side one was to be a writer..
    Inadvertently they all came true in some way..
    God made it all come true.. and there is still more to come..
    You should wish to be as ‘lifeless as I am’

    only in your dreams or on playstation..

  267. Aaron

    Peggy

    If you could please compress any rebuttles to my comments and any other points or arguments you wish to bring up into one post (bullet point the main ones you would like noticed from all your points above) and I will be clear and concise in my responses as I have previously.

    Please refrain from rambling, bible quotes, preaching, and singing apparantly, it would make life alot easier on all involved.

    In the mean time I guess we can see who has gotten to who and who has the clear, rational arguments, and who is just splurting every non sensical idea that comes into her head.

    If you could just compress it into one post (it doesnt even have to be a short post) then I will respond, but im not going to go through the mess you just left.

    Aaron

  268. Peggy Miene

    conscience:

    it means con (with) science (knowledge)

    when we sin; we do it with knowledge that we are sinning; there aren’t any excuses..

    to cover it up, we lie to ourselves to make ourselves feel better; in essence (i learned all this from Ray Comfort) we sear our conscience; that’s a culinary term; in culinary when you sear meat; you burn the outside to retain the juices inside; a good thing for meat and flavor etc; a bad thing for the conscience.

    http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=conscience&allowed_in_frame=0

  269. Peggy Miene

    Aaron

    if you want to read what i wrote; you can; if you don’t, you don’t have to;

    Actually; I’ve got something planned for tomorrow God willing. If you want to reply; then reply;
    if you don’t; then don’t.

    i think I want to fly solo now… I think this is where we part ways; what I mean by that is I think I just want to write what I want on here; if I feel like answering questions I guess I will; I don’t know..

    you guys all sound the same; it’s corny; it’s old. its like this genre of people never evolve; i feel as if you guys walk around in a cirlce all day long.. and everyday..

    I’m just gonna push this thing as far as I can.

    I’m on fire today.. i can’t be pigeon helded; i’m on a whole new level. i’m on to something new..

    feel free to insult me as much as you want though; don’t change on my account.. lets see what happens

    i’m here indefinitely or until Bob figures out a way to block me or until I reach the limits on comments –if there’s such a thing..

    i guess you could say i just want to preach at you guys; i don’t really care what you have to say; i’ve heard it all before.. i’m going to evolve now… expand.. yeah i think that’s whats going to happen.

  270. Jonofantastic

    Man!
    Peggy you sound really crazy!
    Why do you think your winning this, that Aaron guy is kicking your ass!!! Your deludedness seems to keep ya goin tho!I guess someone has to think your winning this huh!Just so ya know im agnostic, the sort of person you wanna be convincing of god im the fence sitter who needs convincing and based on whats on here im leaning more towards being a athiest! if theres a god and i go to hell im blaming you!You put up such crappy arguments, and Aarons seem really learned and well uh, just better!and you make christians look crazy, i want none o that!

  271. Peggy Miene

    oh, jonofantastic you are fantastic; you make me smile

    thanks, there is a horde of you watching..that’s how i know i’m winning, (or at least one of the ways)

    thanks for confirming that fact for me.. please people come out more..show your faces;
    the Word of God divides.. it’s a sword.

    And my lunacy attracts you all to see; it all works together..

    If you don’t belong to God then you don’t belong to him; simple.

    Why can’t you understand what I am saying? It’s because you can’t even hear Me! For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies. So when I tell the truth, you just naturally don’t believe Me! John 8:43-45 (NLT)

    I assure you, we tell you what we know and have seen, and yet you won’t believe our testimony. But if you don’t believe Me when I tell you about earthly things, how can you possibly believe if I tell you about heavenly things? John 3:11-12 (NLT)

    “Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace TO THE EARTH! I came not to bring peace, but a sword. Matt 10:34 (NLT)

    At that time Jesus prayed this prayer: “O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for hiding these things from those who think themselves wise and clever, and for revealing them to the childlike. Yes, Father, it pleased You to do it this way! Matt 11:25-26 (NLT)

    “Then who are you? We need an answer for those who sent us. What do you have to say about yourself?” John replied in the words of the prophet Isaiah:
    “I am a voice shouting in the wilderness, ‘Clear the way for the LORD’s coming!’” John 1:22-23 (NLT)

    “The rain and snow come down from the heavens and stay on the ground to water the earth. They cause the grain to grow, producing seed for the farmer and bread for the hungry. It is the same with My Word. I send it out, and it always produces fruit. It will accomplish all I want it to, and it will prosper everywhere I send it. Isaiah 55:10-11 (NLT)

  272. Peggy Miene

    For the time has come for judgment, and it must begin with God’s household. And if judgment begins with us, what terrible fate awaits those who have never obeyed God’s Good News? And also,
    “If the righteous are barely saved, what will happen to godless sinners?” 1 Peter 4:17-18 (NLT)

    Judgment has already started. Not the final judgment though.

    “But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars—their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

    It starts with God’s household.

    When you see people standing up for what is right; for truth, for justice, and yet they get shunned and persecuted and lied about and ridiculed and people want to close their ears to keep themselves from hearing it then you know that this verse is true.

    People would much rather be in the dark than to admit the truth. People would much rather align themselves with the corrupt majority than to go against them because they think they are protecting their lives.

    They think they will find protection there. But corrupt people sell each other out and set each other up to save themselves.

    It’s a sham.

    After the fall this; this fighting, this devouring of man; is the best that satan could come up with. This is his doing. He’s a warlock so he starts wars.

    A hired hand will run when he sees a wolf coming. He will abandon the sheep because they don’t belong to him and he isn’t their shepherd. And so the wolf attacks them and scatters the flock. The hired hand runs away because he’s working only for the money and doesn’t really care about the sheep. John 10:12-13 (NLT)

    The only way you can be able to run in their gang is to sell out as much as the guy above you; until you have no soul left.

    Until you have no real substance left; no morality left and no conviction.

    For Christians: being on earth is our hell. This is where we die. We die to ourselves and simultaneously we are reborn to life.

    Like a seed that gets planted into the earth and dies sprouting a tree; or a caterpillar that becomes a cocoon and turns into a butterfly.

    “I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by Himself. He does only what He sees the Father doing. Whatever the Father does, the Son also does. For the Father loves the Son and shows Him everything He is doing. In fact, the Father will show Him how to do even greater works than healing this man. Then you will truly be astonished. For just as the Father gives life to those He raises from the dead, so the Son gives life to anyone He wants. John 5:19-21 (NLT)

    This is where we get purified. The haters only serve as the resistance God uses for us to break thru.

    You guys are my fire; my tormentors, my little demons poking at me.

    If you guys, who won’t believe, are so lazy you can’t even scroll up and read 5 pages or even 1000 pages of what I’ve written; then that totally explains why you wouldn’t care about what was written 2000 years ago.

    If you can’t even believe, understand, or spend the time on what is right in front of you; like the EXTRA ORDINARY (the just plain ordinary) then why should God waste His time on you?

    Those are the miracles.

    If you can’t even perceive the miracles that happen all around us everyday; then what difference will it make to do magic tricks for you?

    One day some teachers of religious law and Pharisees came to Jesus and said, “Teacher, we want you to show us a miraculous sign to prove Your authority.” But Jesus replied, “Only an evil, adulterous generation would demand a miraculous sign; Matt 12:38-39 (NLT)

    Only an evil generation would fall for magic tricks like that; and so you do fall for them.

    This man will come to do the work of Satan with counterfeit power and signs and miracles. He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them. So God will cause them to be greatly deceived, and they will believe these lies. Then they will be condemned for enjoying evil rather than believing the truth. 2 Thess 2:9-12 (NLT)

    So your hell is set aside for later. It’s an eternal hell for denying the truth while you had a chance to admit it. It’s an eternal hell for; selling out and compromising yourself to the lie.

    For not admitting that you see it, for not admitting that it belongs to God, for not being faithful to Him while under so much pressure and scrutiny and for not doing the hard work of standing up against the lie.

    Aren’t diamonds caused by the pressure and high temperatures deep within the earth? Well Christians are like diamonds being transformed right before your very eyes.

    When a person comes bragging about themselves; you believe them just fine.
    You don’t call them a narcissistic.

    You follow them because you want to be like them.

    You guys want to call me narcissist because I come here talking about God and you can’t stand for that to be true. You can’t stand to believe that there is One Who you will meet one day and have to stand in front of.

    “I tell you the truth, those who listen to My message and believe in God who sent Me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life. “And I assure you that the time is coming, indeed it’s here now, when the dead will hear My Voice—the Voice of the Son of God. And those who listen will live. John 5:24-25 (NLT)

    You wish I was truly a narcissist. I only admit it because I don’t like to mince words or be a liar; but I’ve admitted it to God already.

    “Your approval means nothing to Me, because I know you don’t have God’s love within you. John 5:41-42 (NLT)

    The fact is that I’m here talking about God and how He saved me; and that’s what you guys can’t stand.

    You totally see; that there’s only one of me and you can’t ‘peer pressure’ me away. You obviously see that there is a power in that.

    If I were to come bragging about myself; like you all do; then you would accept me just fine.

    Yet if others come in their own name, you gladly welcome them. No wonder you can’t believe! For you gladly honor each other, but you don’t care about the honor that comes from the One Who alone is God. John 5:43-44 (NLT)

    And so I burn; Christians burn here.

    We’re like incense to God. When unbelievers make fun of us, persecute us, even kill us, we go straight to God.

    You guys drive us straight to God and we get to know Him more and we come back resembling what you hate all the more.

    O LORD, I am calling to You. Please hurry! Listen when I cry to You for help! Accept my prayer as incense offered to You, and my upraised hands as an evening offering. Psalms 141:1-2 (NLT)

    You like a catalyst. A means to get to Him.

    But when you go to hell; there won’t be any catalyst at all. You will just burn eternally for deny you chance and trying to SAVE YOUR OWN SKINS.

    So if you want to save yourself, go ahead. It’s futile.

    Every day; we choose who we will follow. We choose it by our actions. By what we say and do.

    Every day, God is calling everyone and everyday satan is too.

    Every day we get confronted with it like a mist that passes over the whole earth; continuously; like the air as the earth turns.

    For you have been called to live in freedom, my brothers and sisters. But don’t use your freedom to satisfy your sinful nature. Instead, use your freedom to serve one another in love. For the whole law can be summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you are always biting and devouring one another, watch out! Beware of destroying one another. Gal 5:13-15 (NLT)

    the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things! Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature to His cross and crucified them there. Since we are living by the Spirit, let us follow the Spirit’s leading in every part of our lives. Let us not become conceited, or provoke one another, or be jealous of one another. Gal 5:22-26 (NLT)

    Love does no wrong to others, so love fulfills the requirements of God’s law. Romans 13:10

  273. Peggy Miene

    Witch hunts.

    Don’t you think it’s strange how witch hunts are always attributed to Christians carrying them out?

    But look how many times Jesus is called a demon; when all He did was tell the truth and actually cast out demons from the people.

    And since I, the master of the household, have been called the prince of demons, the members of my household will be called by even worse names! Matt 10:25 (NLT)

    But when the Pharisees heard about the miracle, they said, “No wonder He can cast out demons. He gets His power from Satan, the prince of demons.” Matt 12:24 (NLT)

    The crowd replied, “You’re demon possessed! Who’s trying to kill You?” John 7:20

    The people retorted, “You Samaritan devil! Didn’t we say all along that You were possessed by a demon?” John 8:48

    Some said, “He’s demon possessed and out of His mind. Why listen to a man like that?” John 10:20

    “No,” Jesus said, “I have no demon in Me. For I honor My Father—and you dishonor Me. John 8:49

    In other words; an angle could be “I do the right thing and you condemn me for it.”
    But people who have demons are totally accepted.

    Like Robert Johnson and Nietzsche; they are idolized but their ends are documented and very bizarre and yet no one ever wants to admit the truth about their stories; isn’t that odd? They cover it up or ignore it.

    I think its corrupt people who are the ones who carry out the witch hunts.

    I think that demon possessed people are very accepted. If I were really crazy; I’d be pretty popular.

    I think what’s going on is that these ‘witches’ are being martyred; like the prophets were; a way to shut them up and terrorize anyone who would try to follow these so called ‘witches.’

    Also, and this concept is pretty subtle: you’ll have to pay close attention to get it.

    Jesus performed many miracles and when I read about them I think that the people were so used to NOT SEEING ACTUAL MIRCALES; like someone being raised from the dead or someone being cured of blindness; because they never happen, that when they saw Jesus doing these miracles they got really scared. They attributed the power to satan because it scared them so much.

    Think of it; how many ‘psychics’ say that ‘this’ is going to happen or ‘that’ is going to happen and then these things never happen. So we as people know that stuff; for the most part; is crap.

    But if someone comes who can actually perform miracles and we see it; we’re like bewildered and amazed; because these are things that don’t usually happen.

    Others said, “This doesn’t sound like a man possessed by a demon! Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?” John 10:21

    “Why, that’s very strange!” the man replied. “He healed my eyes, and yet you don’t know where He comes from? We know that God doesn’t listen to sinners, but He is ready to hear those who worship Him and do His will. Ever since the world began, no one has been able to open the eyes of someone born blind. If this man were not from God, He couldn’t have done it.” John 9:30-33 (NLT)

    In reality demons don’t have powers like that; to heal like that.

    Of course there are people who create illusions and for a time, they seem to have a sort of ‘power’ that deceives those who are hell bent; those bent on destroying themselves but real Power is God’s alone.

    I expose the false prophets as liars and make fools of fortune-tellers. I cause the wise to give bad advice, thus proving them to be fools. Isaiah 44:25

    Your prophets have said so many foolish things, false to the core. They did not save you from exile by pointing out your sins. Instead, they painted false pictures, filling you with false hope. Lamentations 2:14

    Dear friends, do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God. For there are many false prophets in the world. 1 John 4:1

    My point is that since they saw Jesus and His power over nature and people; something they had never seen before; those in charge tried to spread lies about Him because they were jealous of Him gaining the love of the people.

    They wanted to keep the people in bondage so that they could have the power and the worship..

    Many in the crowd had seen Jesus call Lazarus from the tomb, raising him from the dead, and they were telling others about it.18 That was the reason so many went out to meet him—because they had heard about this miraculous sign.19 Then the Pharisees said to each other, “There’s nothing we can do. Look, everyone has gone after him!”
    John 12:17-19 (NLT)

    anyways that’s a whole other subject:

    but…

    A note about martyrdom; (this concept is my husband’s).

    In Islam, they kill other people in their form of ‘martyrdom’.
    In Christianity, Christians are killed.
    a major difference.

  274. Aaron

    Peggy

    I am more than happy to continue this, but I am not going to dig through all your non-sensical ramblings to try and discover what points (if any) you made and what responses (if any) you have for my posts.

    I do not have the time or patience, I actually have a life, its summer, the sun is shining and the beach is calling my name!
    And besides, as I already told you, I tend to spend no more than 20 mins on this site each day.

    Now if you want to have a rational, reasoned, calm, clear and concise debate, then by all means please come up with a decent argument and put it forward, bullet point if you want, make it as long as you want! Some of my posts have been extreamly lengthy so I dont mind you doing the same, im just looking for some sort of coherrant organisation on your part.

    Im not sure if it is just a tactic of yours to flood the post with shambolic rambling, preaching and bible quotes that add nothing to the debate what so ever and essentially just waste everybodies time, ive never seen anybody write so much and yet not make a single intelligent point, its a good way to prevent people from responding to you, which seems to be what you want.

    But if you wish to continue, please go ahead, just do it coherrently and intelligently so we can actually have a reasoned debate.

    I understand if you are too scared to do this, I mean lets face it I have destroyed everything you’ve put forward thus far, whilst at the same time been totally ignored by you (Still waiting on the name of that historical non biblical eyewitness to Jesus).
    So if you want to cut and run, throw in the towel as it were I understand, I dont blame you, you’ve been trying to do this for almost a week now, I feel your trying to sieze an opportunity.

    You can even accept this defeat and claim it as a victory if you want, you seem to be doing that anyway, you can go and tell all your friends how you beat a “stupid Athiest” in a drawn out online debate, at least anyone who wants to see who the real victor was can just come online and read these posts.

    The choice is yours anyway, I’m waiting…..

    Aaron

  275. Peggy Miene

    Aaron

    Then don’t; don’t do anything you don’t want to; I don’t want to continue it anymore; i want to focus on other subjects now.

    I have a lot of time and patience, i have eternity; and this is my life; to glorify God all the days of my life.

    It was really nice meeting you Aaron
    I hope everything goes well for you; you’re a really smart person and I respect that. Take care.

  276. Peggy Miene

    “God will give me the words; when its time.” –Peggy Miene

    Yes, I quote myself. Why wait for some else to do it?

    I decided a while back that I would ‘compile’ (I like that word- thanks to Aaron) my own work. One way was by just quoting myself; these random thoughts pop into my head and they sound good to me so I quote them.

    Being in the internet age, no matter what gets deleted it will always be there I believe.

    The computer; it’s just its own library, programmed to record everything we feed it you know; so I thought to myself that if ever there came a time where someone would have to do a search on me it would all be there; ready; under my control in a way (I picked and chose what it was that I wanted).

    You never know what’s going to happen. I don’t think that most people who end up being famous set out to be; it’s just something that happens.

    Anyways, I’m not the only one who does it. This generation is very aware of history and how it happens; collection of data and one big event. Most people aren’t famous until their dead. Yeah that’s true isn’t it? I would bet that most famous people aren’t famous until they are dead. Maybe one day I’ll remember to do a study on that.

    Anyways. God will give me the words when it’s time. I have something to write but I don’t know what it is yet and I don’t know what I want to say yet.

    Also, I discovered something today while doing a paper for an art class I’m taking and it ties in with what Randy said about me being a narcissus; ‘being introspective.’

    I never knew that being introspective was likened to being a narcissus but I think it is true; it makes sense totally and I know I’m definitely introspective. I’m glad he said it, because now I’m aware of it; the connection; and how I’m perceived from the outside.

    There’s a saying: “It’s better to understand than to be understood.”

    Is it wrong to be introspective?

    I don’t think I could escape being that ever. I’m always in my head and I’ve always been there, ever since I could remember. But it does make sense.

    Narcissus looked into the pond. But the difference is I don’t look at myself because I’m in love with myself. I wish I had confidence like that. I don’t. I look at myself because of my faults. I’m a really self conscious person. I always look at myself anticipating all the ugly things people are going to find within me. It makes me nervous and shy; I’m actually pretty quiet and awkward.

    My dad was really critical of my physical appearance.

    I do know my strengths though; don’t misunderstand; false modesty is another way to lie; and I do know I’m smart. So in a way I’m like a pretty girl who’s hated because she’s pretty; except that it’s because I’m smart. So people misunderstand me. They call someone who in reality is introspective (pensive- deep in thought) and call them a narcissus without understanding.

    But I do like the truth and I’ve always said that my enemies tell me the most about myself because they are my outside source and they are the most brutally honest. They cause me to become better.

    The difference between them and me is that I listen to the criticisms which lead me to learn. They lead me to learn about God, and myself and people.

    The more I know myself and I’m honest to myself about myself; the more I can understand people because even though the details of our lives may be different; we are all human; so we are all the same.

    When I get the answers though I’m satisfied that I did get an answer; in other words I don’t ignore the answers or say that even though I asked the question no one gave me an answer.

    I admit it when I get them and therefore I’m not like a person who goes over the same information over and over again going in a circle never making progress or being numb to myself; being unfeeling to myself; you know the opposite of being introspective.

    I don’t just assume my enemies are wrong, I don’t mince words. I apply what they say to myself and I grow that way. It all works together and it all sets me free. The truth stings but the truth will set you free.

    I like to look at myself. It’s one thing to look at oneself and think these grandiose thoughts; it’s another to look at oneself and critique and analyze one’s self instead of building a defense against it.

    Better yet: taking it to God in confession so He can change that in me and or heal me. Thank God Jesus is my Savior because I am a sorry sod.

    My confidence comes from God. Before Him I was such a different person. I used to be almost mute if you can believe it. No one knew me at all; not the real me.

    But if we confess our sins to Him, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness. 1 John 1:9

    Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The earnest prayer of a righteous person has great power and produces wonderful results. James 5:16

  277. Aaron

    Peggy

    Im sorry (though not really suprised) that you have decided not to carry on, although I do admit I did begin to feel I was wasting my time with you.
    Perhaps you are incapable of reasoned debate and thats fine, it may even be a side affect of your illness which is not your fault so I understand.
    (I dont mean that offensivley, I know it does not affect your intellect or lack there of, I meant your compulsive typing, over posting, and adding anything that suddenly springs to your mind with no coherrant organisation or control).

    Good luck for the future, enjoy your life and I hope if you honestly and openly search for truth, with an open mind, then you will find it.
    Unfortunatly I fear you have a long way to go yet.

    Aaron

  278. Peggy Miene

    Aaron

    You win; congratulations Aaron; you’re too smart for me.

    I am incapable of having a reasoned debate; it’s because I’m a manic depressive; thank you for being so patient with me your right I’m just a very stupid person and that’s why I believe in God; I’m simple minded. Maybe one day I’ll rise to your level.

    It was nice meeting you enjoy the beach for me.

  279. Peggy Miene

    i was taking a nap and then all of a sudden i had these lyrics in my head.

    from Sweeny Todd:

    “Bus’ness needs a lift, Debts to be erased…Think of it as thrift, As a gift, If you get my drift!” -end of qoute

    and then these:

    “For what’s the sound of the world out there?
    What, Mr. Todd? What, Mr. Todd? What is that sound?:
    Those crunching noises pervading the air:
    Yes, Mr. Todd, yes, Mr. Todd Yes, all around
    It’s man devouring man, my dear And then who are we to deny it in here?” -end of qoute

    maybe it was God alerting me of Aaron’s latest mail.

    I guess Aaron wanted to make a snack out of me.

    when i first read it (his mail); i struggled with it;

    actually, i’ve been depressed today because of him.

    he made my heart sink so low.

    All he had to do was scroll up to Nov 30th; it’s all there.

    I’m tired of being surrounded by liars who are always setting up mine fields for me. I actually liked the guy. I thought he was nice; he sounded nice sometimes but I don’t think he is anymore. I don’t think he is very honest at all.

    He dissappointed me so much. He let me down; people let me down, i’ve never been let down by God ever; not once. God is more real to me than any person. I thought he was something.

    A person who promises a gift but doesn’t give it is like clouds and wind that bring no rain. Proverbs 25:14

    Things like that scare me; if people can do that to each other then they are liable to do anything.

    And they do; I’ve experienced it unfortunately.

    Anyways I’m still not in a very good mood at all. I’m still really depressed; not for anything I wrote or for any shame i feel about myself. I’m depressed because of the people I’m surrounded with in the world; people like Aaron. they seem like they have so much potential. but they don’t. He;s supposed to be so smart but he can’t scroll up and ‘dig’ it’s really not that hard. All he had to do was remember the last thing he wrote and then find the next post with his name on it; i did it last night and it’s the very first one for Nov 30th.

    But who can win when they make it so impossible; and i don’t even mean win as in one person over the other; i mean who can win together; who can have a friend like that?

    Can two people walk together without agreeing on the direction. Amos 3:3 (NLT)

    He said he wouldn’t spoon feed me; but he wants me to pick the lint from between his toes.

    as i thought that thought this verse came to me:

    And since I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you ought to wash each other’s feet. John 13:14

    Then I started to cry; and it was so hard for my pride but what’s the use of fighting someone like that; I get it. It’s pointless. Just give in to them; God knows the truth anyways and that’s all that matters.

    But I say, do not resist an evil person! If someone slaps you on the right cheek, offer the other cheek also. If you are sued in court and your shirt is taken from you, give your coat, too.41 If a soldier demands that you carry his gear for a mile, carry it two miles.42 Give to those who ask, and don’t turn away from those who want to borrow.
    Matt 5:39-42 (NLT)

    I understand it now; thanks to Aaron; he needs it more than i do; let him have the win; if he wants it that bad he has to lie for it and cheat for it.

    I should feel sorry for him, I have God for when no one understands me.

    He’s emotionally bankrupt. To be so unfeeling as that and to really believe that he’s an ‘ok person’; morally i mean. That’s sociopathic- i should know; i’m crazy remember.. i know a lot about psychology and stuff. and that’s scary. He can’t feel another person or know when he’s hurting someone. That’s dangerous.

    Another thing I was thinking was the contrast between someone like Robert Johnson and myself.
    In a way we are both tormented; except he was tormented by entities in his mind; he felt haunted. But people liked him; I’m assuming, for the most part; right? They have to have because he’s famous now.

    Me, I’m tormented by people, I run to an Entity to help me. I don’t feel haunted; but I do feel lonely when it comes to people.

    There’s no one here. There’s nobody to talk to. I have my husband and we talk alot and my son but he’s a kid.

    But I mean others; friends. There’s no one here; everyone is fake. Not real; not genuine.

    Unless all I want to do is get drunk all the time; there’s really no way to have friends. Everybody lies.

    There’s no way to connect for real; nobody wants that. I do though. And I’m not afraid of it. I think that scares people. Everything is superficial.

    I don’t want to be numb. I want to feel things.

    I want to go to heaven and be with others like me and to feel things. To really connect unabashedly.

    And so people hate me.

    The world can’t hate you, but it does hate Me (Jesus) because I accuse it of doing evil. John 7:7 (NLT)

    I identify with Jesus here; I understand. That’s why the world hates me, because I keep telling it that it’s ways are wrong. That it’s wrong to be unfeeling for instance and it’s wrong to lie to win etc.

    I always knew I was meant for something. I never knew what. I always knew that I was going to be someone, or something, not regular like everyone else..but different than everybody else.

    We must not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and killed his brother. And why did he kill him? Because Cain had been doing what was evil, and his brother had been doing what was righteous. So don’t be surprised, dear brothers and sisters, if the world hates you. 1 John 3:12-13 (NLT)

    I can’t wait to get out of here;

    If you want to feel sorry for me, don’t feel sorry for me because I’m manic or because you perceive me to being depressed; I’m not depressed because of things in my head.

    I’m depressed because people are so disappointing.

    What I’m really missing, what I would really like to see are honest people. I mean, I liked Aaron, a lot. But he turned out to be worthless; useless and good for nothing…

    That’s why people go to hell, because they aren’t any good for anything else. They are only good for nothing. That’s why he has to puff himself up that way; it’s empty, it’s hot air.

    It’s scary

    Although he is useless to himself and useless to others, God still used him as an instrument for me in a very deep way; I understand so many verses a whole lot better now because of Aaron.

    God uses every evil for a good purpose; so nothing is wasted.

    I have given them Your Word. And the world hates them because they do not belong to the world, just as I do not belong to the world. I’m not asking You to take them out of the world, but to keep them safe from the evil one. They do not belong to this world any more than I do John 17:14-16 (NLT)

    Anyone who hates me also hates my Father.24 If I hadn’t done such miraculous signs among them that no one else could do, they would not be guilty. But as it is, they have seen everything I did, yet they still hate me and my Father.25 This fulfills what is written in their Scriptures: ‘They hated me without cause.’ John 15:23-25 (NLT)

  280. Peggy Miene

    yep, nov 3oth; all he has to do is scroll up and the very first one for Nov 30th is addressed to him.

    It’s not that hard but; i did notice that everything on the RSS feed is stalled.. and perhaps that’s linked to his e-mail so he thinks i haven’t responded..

    It’s better this way anyways… we can go our seperate ways now… Thank God for small favors.

  281. Peggy Miene

    The Grinch is on right now:

    Cindy Lou who, I look up to her;
    She’s a writer and she goes out to get the story and she does her investigative research and she’s well versed in the Book of Who.

    But I always thought that the Dr. Seuss stories were always backwards; my experience has been that it’s the Cindy Lous who are the ones who live like the Grinch. And the majority of the people are like the Grinch.

  282. Peggy Miene

    Harden the hearts of these people. Plug their ears and shut their eyes. That way, they will not see with their eyes, nor hear with their ears, nor understand with their hearts and turn to me for healing.”
    Isaiah 6:10

    Give them hard and stubborn hearts, and then let your curse fall on them!
    Lamentations 3:65

    They are a stubborn and hard-hearted people. But I am sending you to say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says!’
    Ezekiel 2:4

    But the people of Israel won’t listen to you any more than they listen to me! For the whole lot of them are hard-hearted and stubborn. 8 But look, I have made you as obstinate and hard-hearted as they are. 9 I have made your forehead as hard as the hardest rock! So don’t be afraid of them or fear their angry looks, even though they are rebels.” Ezekiel 3:7-9

  283. Peggy Miene

    i had to do this one again; the link didn’t work; I’m so glad God is teaching how to let go of me always wanting to be perfect.. or else that would have really upset me. snags… they used to really trip me up..

    The Grinch finds his ‘feelings’: this is my favorite part..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8J-YmVs1j0&feature=relmfu

    And I (God) will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will take out your stony, stubborn heart and give you a tender, responsive heart. Ezekiel 36:26

  284. Atheist

    Peggy Miene

    You wrote so honestly about one of your problems that I just have to respond to it. This is not at all an attack on you but I will write it the way I see it…..You write that you just have your husband and son and you feel so alone and don´t have some friends you can talk to….I think this is your main problem…..Peggy Miene you must try to connect to somebody else and make some friends in your life so you have someone to talk to. This is so importent.

    Peggy Miene…..you can´t make friends through the internet….I think you are trying to do that unconsciously and that is why you are feeling so sad about this with Aaron…..I know all this I write here can be perceived that I will be hard against you but I´m not trying to attack you.

    Let me be honest with you……Peggy Miene I´m not your friend and you will find no friends here at all. You MUST make your own friends in your life and NOT through a stupid computer (internet). I can´t say to you how you can make friends in your life because I don´t know how you live your life. I´m just a person who is trying to help you a little but don´t get me wrong because YOU must try to connect to other people so you have someone to talk to besides your husband. YOU can change how you do things…I really don´t know how you can make some friends but in some way or another You must try.

    It´s all up to you what you do……and I will wish you best of luck with that :-)

  285. Peggy Miene

    Atheist

    I like your words and no I don’t see it as you being hard against me; I like criticism. Thank you for taking the time out to write to me I really appreciate it and I’m not being sarcastic.

    But how do you know I haven’t tried?

    I’ve said this in posts before.

    When I was “crazy” I was accepted.

    When I was like everyone else. Drinking, doing drugs, being promiscuous. Everyone accepted me.

    But I was very sad then, and very tormented in my mind.

    Now that I’m healthy no one accepts me.

    I’ll speak even more honestly; maybe to honest; if you have the time, please listen to my story.

    People want to know why I’m so obsessed with Bob, because I’ve seen people like him before.

    This whole thing started with the Occupy Wall Street; and the; “Lotion man”
    Previous to me seeing that clip of the Lotion man yelling at the Jewish guy; I had already been writing about stuff like that on my Facebook page.

    I had written that I hung out in NY (I’m from NJ) and I’m the biggest fruit fly you could ever find; but that I know gay people are some of the cattiest people I have ever met; they are snotty and so am I so I guess that’s why I hung out with them so much; birds or a feather stick together.

    And when that clip came out I posted it on my facebook; and I wrote;
    “see this is an example of what I was talking about”

    (you can go and find it on facebook under ‘Peggy Miene’; scroll down) my whole life is written there)

    Then that clip led me to the “amazing strangers” and I was all like

    “wow, I used to do the same thing but in Washington sq park- I used to observed the people there too (not with a camera but just watching them).

    It was fascinating.

    So from the get go; I felt as though I understood Bob. I was already in his head; I knew where he was going.

    Then I found his interview about his mother and that scared me for my son.

    I wondered; how did a Christian mother end up with a kid like this?

    (I think I know now though; I’ve been praying about it)

    Christians aren’t guaranteed an easy life just because they are Christians.

    In fact if anything their lives are harder and filled with more complexities. It’s probably to test her faith; and in the Bible there are two examples of faithful parents having unfaithful kids: Samuel and Eli.

    Anyways the more I observed Bob the more he reminded me of (this is really embarrassing – a real soft spot- I hate it) my ex; the love of my life actually.

    That guy was bad.

    Of all the people in the world he hurt me the most.

    He always talked about how he was setting me ‘free’ but he wasn’t.

    It was with him that I stared doing drugs and it was with him that I became promiscuous.

    He sold me; like a pimp does; and I didn’t realize it. I didn’t understand what was going on because I was an idiot. It’s been like a good 16 years. And he’s never answered for it; although I’ve confronted him.

    I could go on about that but I want to switch gears here.

    We broke up when I was about 19 officially. And then I went to the Dominican Republic for vacation and to get away from NY/ NJ.

    I was still and atheist. I was there for two months; but my last two weeks I started ‘waking up’.
    On the plane ride home I started thinking about the plane and how the idea for it couldn’t have just originated from the man who invented it.

    I started thinking about bridges. And again I realized that he must have been inspired to create it; obviously out of necessity; he wanted to get to the other side; but that I started seeing that even though we humans make things, the ideas come from somewhere outside of ourselves.

    That was the beginning.

    In a way I was starting to turn to God.

    Then another thing happened shortly after I had come back from the Dominican Republic. I wanted to make money. I really didn’t need it because I lived with my parents, but you know how teenagers are; I want to be independent from them.

    So I got a great idea (I’m being sarcastic).

    I decided I was going to be a stripper. Something I would have never thought of if it weren’t for my ex; his name is Ray; we’ll call him Ray.

    So I went to 42nd street in Manhattan (I had no idea how I was going to do this; mind you) but I walked into a porno shop; I think it must have been sometime after Halloween because there were a whole bunch of Halloween decorations in the garbage cans all around the city that day and I distinctly remember a skeleton on the street floor laying by a garbage can.

    Anyways I went in, looking around, not sure what to do and then I walked out. I was so scared.

    And when I walked out there was this guy standing there; leaning up against a parked car.

    He looked like Kurt Cobain. And he said “What’s a nice girl like you coming out of a place like that?” and I lied to him, I said “I’m looking for my brother” and he walked with me from 42nd street all the way down to what used to be the World Trade Center. That’s a long walk, about 40 NY city blocks.

    I just pretended like I was going somewhere without having anywhere to go and he just walked with me. He talked to me the whole way about God; I didn’t say much; I was really depressed that day and I don’t remember much about what he was talking about but I know it was about God. That guy saved me form myself that day. I have a lot of stories like that.

    For years I didn’t know what to make of it; in fact for years I hadn’t really thought about it until I became a real Christian and looking back I believe he was an angel. God knew that I wouldn’t just talk to anyone. God knew it had to be a certain type of person; someone who looked like my generation; someone I would relate to.

    Maybe the guy was a real guy; I don’t know; whatever the case, he was inspired by God to be there and to talk to me and he was faithful in doing it. I thank him; Thank God for him, because I didn’t really want to be a stripper. I just wanted money and it’s what I had learned from, Ray.

    Ray taught me how to be that way.

    Then after sometime I joined the Navy. While I was in Virginia I had my own apartment. Every night I would cry myself to sleep because I missed Ray so much. I’m actually a pretty tradition type of girl. I really just want to be married to Ray. But he was weird; he never let me in to his heart. I think he was trying to destroy me. Put me in bondage; make me sick. Looking back I think that he never intended to have a real relationship with me; we were together for three years and I lived with him for most of it; we were each other’s first (kind of; that’s another story).

    He had told me of an experience he had once while he was in a mental institution. (Yes, we’re both mental) and he told me that he had had a visitation while he was in the shower one day.

    Again I don’t remember all the details of his story and it wasn’t something I thought about until I became a real Christian; all these memories started coming back to me; as I read the Bible; I was really repressed and numb etc.

    But I know now what happened because I’ve had similar ‘visitations’ as well from satan (thru people) and God (thru people and His Spirit). I think Satan came to him and he was open to satan and he became one of satan’s helpers to put it simply.

    I know it sounds crazy but it’s true. You know the saying ‘true life is stranger than fiction.’

    Well, one day while I was crying in my apt; (it was a bad crying ‘fit’ I guess you could say) and I started praying; to God. I was about 21 or 22 at this time. I had already been a Buddhist and had left that. But I started praying; really praying for the first time because I was so tired of crying.

    And all of a sudden I started laughing; it was like a wave and I got the energy to get up, and I went up stairs and I went to bed.

    He made me stop crying and He helped me when I called Him with my whole heart. He made me laugh; and I felt as though things were going to be ok; for the first time.

    If you look for Me wholeheartedly, you will find Me. I will be found by you,” says the LORD. “I will end your captivity and restore your fortunes. I will gather you out of the nations where I sent you and will bring you home again to your own land.” Jer 29:13-14 (NLT)

    It was wonderful. That was another stage; another ‘beginning’ He’s been restoring me and my life ever since. He’s been releasing me from my bondages. All of them, my family stuff, my mental stuff, everything. God is real.

    I’ve been through it all; meds, psychiatry; friends, drugs, sex, being perfect, building myself an empire (I made a lot of money in the navy, being pretty). None of that is real at all.

    I’m 33 now and it’s just been these phases; like levels. Each level gets me ready for the next one and each level gets me more and more free.

    When I was sick; everyone was fine with me; I fit in. Now that I’m healthy and I tell them it’s because of God. Now no one likes me. It’s because no one wants to believe in God.

    The LORD looks down from heaven on the entire human race; He looks to see if anyone is truly wise, if anyone seeks God. But no, all have turned away; all have become corrupt. No one does good, not a single one! Psalms 14:2-3 (NLT)

    No one seeks God, it’s true. God lets the true and the false run together so that we can test them side by side and pick which one we want; to pick which sounds/ feels the truest to us. If ‘lying’ feels ‘true’ to someone then they are free to pick it.

    When I met Ray I knew what type of person I was and wanted to be. I’ve always wanted to fall in love. That was my dream. I always wanted it to be one man and one woman and for it to be real and forever. And satan used that dream against me; and he tried to use it as a means to tie me up.

    If it weren’t for God I wouldn’t be who I am today. I would be sick and chasing a dream, in the wrong way. But God taught me how to do it; how to get my dream. And He makes it happen simultaneously; I’m in love with my husband and our relationship is growing; it’s not ‘perfect’ but it’s growing.

    I’m sad for Aaron because he’s so stubborn and he doesn’t see himself. I’m sad because unless I bow down to him; he won’t listen to me; and to be totally honest he doesn’t want to listen to me; he just wants me to bow to him and that’s corruption. That’s satanic.

    But Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers in this world lord it over their people, and officials flaunt their authority over those under them. But among you it will be different. Whoever wants to be a leader among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first among you must become your slave. For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve others and to give His life as a ransom for many.” Matt 20:25-28 (NLT)

    I’ve watched Bob, I’ve even given him the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes I think: “Maybe he is this really good guy and I’m totally misjudging him. Maybe people do open up to him and he does get to a point where he can help them and he does help them.”

    But then I remember that Inna clip and I think to myself. “He doesn’t want to see her get help; he doesn’t want to see her get healthy. He wants to see her worship him and fawn over him; that’s why he posted the clip. To show people “look at this hard flower opening up to me; See guys, I am something!!!”

    That’s what he wrote “Inna is so fucking cute! Lotsa people don’t get to see that side of her. But I do. And it’s be cause I’m so goddamned special.”

    He’s no good. If he really cared about her; he wouldn’t care about himself in relation to her at all. He would just want to see her healthy aside from him.

    When I talk to Aaron, he doesn’t like me. I don’t care if he likes me or not; or if he opens up to me or not. I want him to live; I want him to be healthy, to be happy; so I point him to God.

    So that no matter what comes to his life; he will be able to stand firm; because he has God not because he has some other person agreeing with him when he’s wrong.

    That’s what makes me sad; that there are so many people who prefer the lie rather than the truth.

    God is the one getting the bad reputation; not satan like Bob says.

    I’m not here to make friends; I’m here to evangelize.

    You misunderstood what I meant when I said ‘who can have a friend like that?’

    I was using it as an example of how can people win with ‘friends’ like that? When one does their best and the other chooses not to acknowledge it or when to be friends one has to be on top while the other is on the bottom.

    How can two people continue on together when they disagree hence the verse I posted:

    Can two people walk together without agreeing on the direction. Amos 3:3 (NLT)

    Aaron and I disagree on many things, even the way we treat people; he constantly called me retarded; while I’d admit that I thought he was intelligent; he thought that I was rude but he didn’t take the time out to understand what was going on; he just attacked me which I think is pretty rude.

    And I noticed that the RSS feed got unclogged but what I had written to Aaron on Nov 30th (like three posts answering all the questions that he won’t accept) they aren’t there on the RSS feed; it must be some kind of glitch.

    But I can see everything I’ve written here on my computer when I scroll up. There are things i’ve written that aren’t on that RSS feed; lots of stuff; i think it’s also for people who subscribe to it; which i do, but i don’t get e-mail updates like it says that i should; i don’t think it’s programmed very well actually.

    I’ve explained stuff like this over and over. But he’s not willing to listen. I don’t go thru the RSS feed and this site isn’t linked up to my e-mail. I literally come to Bob’s site and click on “newfoundjoy part 2” and click on the ‘leave one” option.

    I can’t make things any clearer than that; if someone doesn’t want to understand then they don’t have to. I believe in freedom.. real freedom..

    I leave it in God’s hands; there’s a reason for everything. If I were tied up with Aaron then I wouldn’t have been able to write the post that caused you to write this last post of yours. You wouldn’t have been able to say what you had to say right now and then I wouldn’t have been able to say all this. Thank God for small favors.

    Everything that’s happening here is all for the benefit of someone who is open to understanding even if it’s only one person. It’s like theater or performance art.

    A mocker seeks wisdom and never finds it, but knowledge comes easily to those with understanding. Proverbs 14:6

    It’s ok, if I’m misunderstood, I didn’t come here to be understood:

    I came to point people to God and get saved.

    But thank you for your time.

  286. Peggy Miene

    There are a few typos

    like this one:

    “I’ve been through it all; meds, psychiatry; friends, drugs, sex, being perfect, building myself an empire (I made a lot of money in the navy, being pretty). None of that is real at all.” -end of qoute

    I didn’t make alot of money in the navy ‘by being pretty’.

    it’s was supposed to read like this but i was typing & thinking too fast:

    I’ve been through it all; meds, psychiatry; friends, drugs, sex, being perfect, being pretty, building myself an empire (I made a lot of money in the navy). None of that is real at all. -end of qoute

    I even went to the local library to see if what i had written to Aaron on Nov 30 would be visible from a different computer and it is; from the NormalBob site; click on newfoundjoy and scroll down or up; it’s all there.

    and i checked the RSS feed and from the library’s computer there are only 10 posts visible there. So my point is that it is a matter of perspective; Aaron is mistaken.

  287. Peggy Miene

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJaUjsyB1dQ

    You burden me with your questions
    You’d have me tell no lies
    You’re always asking what it’s all about
    But don’t listen to my replies
    You say to me I don’t talk enough
    But when I do I’m a fool
    These times I’ve spent, I’ve realized
    I’m going to shoot through
    And leave you

    The things, you say
    Your purple prose just gives you away
    The things, you say
    You’re unbelievable

    You burden me with your problems
    By telling me more than mine
    I’m always so concerned
    With the way you say
    You’ve always go to stop
    To think of us being one
    Is more than I ever know
    But this time, I realize
    I’m going to shoot through
    And leave you

    Seemingly lastless, don’t mean
    You can ask us
    Pushing down the relative
    Bringing out your higher self
    Think of the fine times
    Pushing down the better few
    Instead of bringing out the clues
    To what the world and everything anger to
    Brace yourself with the grace of ease
    I know this world ain’t what it seems.

    What the f*** was that
    It’s unbelievable

  288. Peggy Miene

    What I’m doing here; is like performance art. I go with the flow, I ride the storm.

    Don’t put me in a box; you can’t put freedom in a box and try to label it and say freedom should act like this or it should be like that.

    People don’t understand because they don’t want to.

    Read your Bibles; give you lives to God and you will see.

    I know a lot of Christians wouldn’t come here to evangelized but we weren’t all made to be the same and do the same things in the same way.

    “I tell you, her sins—and they are many—have been forgiven, so she has shown me much love. But a person who is forgiven little shows only little love.” Luke 7:47

    I go where God leads me and it’s usually to people like me; people I relate to.

    “If a man has a hundred sheep and one of them gets lost, what will he do? Won’t he leave the ninety-nine others in the wilderness and go to search for the one that is lost until he finds it? Luke 15:4

    I go to the wilderness, because that’s what i know.. i’ve been trained for this my whole life. I can be just as hard, but i’m soft inside.. read your Bibles… don’t take my word for it.. Learn, pray… He’ll tell you all about yourself. You’ll see it open up like a flower; all your days will be like that always growing..

    “Come and see a man who told me everything I ever did! Could he possibly be the Messiah?”
    John 4:29

    It’s all real. Jesus Christ it the real thing. No other way; and the consquences are real too..

    Yesterday was a low day but today is a high one. If it weren’t for the low days how could I have the high ones.

    I got to see God work. He always does. It’s amazing.

    The funny thing about that guy who showed up; the one who looked like (Kurt Cobain) I don’t even like Nirvana, but he was grungy looking and all my friends liked Nirvana so it was easy for me to let him talk to me; God knows us. At that point in my life I probably wouldn’t have listened to someone all clean and tidy.

    In fact; the day the Kurt killed himself; I was going to kill myself (I’ve done many attempts) but when I found out about him I didn’t because I didn’t want to look like a copy cat; my attempts weren’t cried for help, I really wanted to get kill myself.

    That is a bona fide true story. I don’t know if I’ve ever told anyone about it. But it’s true; it’s also around my brother’s birthday which another reason why I didn’t do. Kurt killed himself on April 5, but it wasn’t discovered until April 8th by brother’s birthday.

    Please don’t misunderstand (I can tell it could be misunderstood or twisted) I don’t think that guy was the reincarnation of Kurt Cobain NOT AT ALL; before people start twisting things.
    But I never died; at the age of 19 I stopped trying and decided that I had better find a way to make it in the world.

    God didn’t let me die; I wasn’t meant to die.

    People have done less than me and died. Boy have I got some stories.

    But Christians don’t all look like each other and I don’t think that they are supposed to. We are to test every spirit.

    The devil makes good use of the Bible; he can come in sheep’s clothing; we all know that proverb.

    This is the life God gave me, the unique life He gave to me. It can’t be copied.

    Don’t copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God’s will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect. Romans 12:2

  289. Peggy Miene

    Have you ever seen the twilight zone?

    I’m like that black man who goes from home to home reasoning with the people.

    I use all my resources, everything I know for the purpose and I learn a lot too along the way.

    And you think my life isn’t fun; beauty is in the eye of the beholder i guess…i’ll leave it at that.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n-BFslcHWE

  290. Peggy Miene

    I believe that when we get to heaven and we see our loved ones who didn’t believe in Jesus in hell; we will be at peace with it; i’ve thought about Ray for many years and thru the years many things have been brought to my attention; the more i know the more things make sense and the less attached i am to all of that stuff; sure i worry about him and i want the best for him; but we all have the same opprotunity to believe; we all have the same opprotunity to turn to God; i don’t undestand everything now and who knows what will change with time but as of today i totally understand why someone should go to hell for denying Jesus; just like it’s obvious to see the results of a person’s terrible life due to the terrible choices they made. Anyways…

    The man who had been freed from the demons begged to go with Him (Jesus). But Jesus sent him home, saying,
    “No, go back to your family, and tell them everything God has done for you.” So he went all through the town proclaiming the great things Jesus had done for him.
    Luke 8:38-39 (NLT)

    Come and listen, all you who fear God, and I will tell you what He did for me.
    For I cried out to Him for help, praising Him as I spoke.
    If I had not confessed the sin in my heart, the Lord would not have listened.
    But God did listen! He paid attention to my prayer.
    Praise God, who did not ignore my prayer or withdraw His unfailing love from me.
    Psalms 66:16-20 (NLT)

    Come, my children, and listen to me, and I will teach you to fear the Lord.
    Does anyone want to live a life that is long and prosperous?
    Then keep your tongue from speaking evil and your lips from telling lies!
    Turn away from evil and do good.
    Search for peace, and work to maintain it.
    The eyes of the Lord watch over those who do right; His ears are open to their cries for help.
    But the Lord turns His face against those who do evil; He will erase their memory from the earth.
    Psalms 34:11-16 (NLT)

  291. Peggy Miene

    Remember;

    this is an argument that some people bring up to try to explain the state of Hitler’s mind.

    Many people believe that Hitler THOUGHT he was doing good. But how did the story end; as it’s a close and documented history?

    As the he saw the he was losing the war, he avoided going out in public more and more; he became a recluse. Then as the war was closing in on him he hid in an underground mansion and he killed himself.

    He destoryed Germany and then he didn’t even stick around and face up to it. He hid and he left Germany to pick up the pieces all by herself. He didn’t really care about Germany or it’s people at all. He destroyed there reputation; as a kid i was always fasinated by WW2. What the Jewish people went thru, the Nazis and the whole dynamic of it all. Can you imagine a black hispanic ending up with a German last name… God knows everything.. Everything is in his hands..
    there are no mistakes…
    Read your Bibles; you’ll learn alot about life. I promise you.

  292. Peggy Miene

    typos

    Remember;

    this is an argument that some people bring up to try to explain the state of Hitler’s mind.

    Many people believe that Hitler THOUGHT he was doing good. But how did the story end; as it’s a close and documented history?

    As he saw that he was losing the war, he avoided going out in public more and more; he became a recluse. Then as the war was closing in on him he hid in an underground mansion and he killed himself.

    He destoryed Germany and then he didn’t even stick around and face up to it. He hid and he left Germany to pick up the pieces all by herself. He didn’t really care about Germany or it’s people at all. He destroyed their reputation;

    as a kid i was always fasinated by WW2. What the Jewish people went thru, the Nazis and the whole dynamic of it all.

    Can you imagine a black hispanic ending up with a German last name…

    God knows everything.. Everything is in His hands..
    there are no mistakes…

    Read your Bibles; you’ll learn alot about life. I promise you. and you will see the purpose of your life.. it’s truly amazing.

  293. Peggy Miene

    Maya Angelou has this great quote; one i totally agree with and have found to be true.

    “There is no greater agony than bearing an untold story inside you.”
    Maya Angelou

    You have no idea how much peace i get every time i tell my story.. It’s like getting untangled. Getting free.. What bliss, what joy. What cleansing. What a sweet weekend i spent.

    A person can’t fight against the truth… Truth is even offensive; but not vulgar. It just is.

    Truth challenges people. With truth you either got it or you don’t. You can either rise to the challenge or show yourself to be a fraud.. It’s about going the distance..I really intend to leave all of my crap and baggage here on earth so that it can be destroyed along with all the elements..

    But the day of the Lord will come as unexpectedly as a thief. Then the heavens will pass away with a terrible noise, and the very elements themselves will disappear in fire, and the earth and everything on it will be found to deserve judgment.
    2 Peter 3:10 (NLT)

    On that day, He will set the heavens on fire, and the elements will melt away in the flames.
    2 Peter 3:12 (NLT)

    Like i said; earth is a Christian’s hell; all of our crap gets burned up and left here. We all deserve to die and we all do.

    I’ve said it before; which one do you pick?
    Hell now or hell later?
    Either way you’re going to go thru it.

    For the time has come for judgment, and it must begin with God’s household. And if judgment begins with us, what terrible fate awaits those who have never obeyed God’s Good News? 1 Peter 4:17

    and we Christians barely make it.

    “If the righteous are barely saved, what will happen to godless sinners?
    1 Peter 4:18 (NLT)

    What about you guys who don’t even know what the heck is going on?

    How are you guys going to make it.

    You just assume your right because you don’t ‘feel’ anything, because you don’t ‘see’ anything.

    Well, we’ve already established that you don’t want to ‘feel’ or ‘see’. You make yourselves hard and therefore God helps you along.

    If you don’t want to believe the truth then God lets you go on your merry way. Freedom.

    You turn away from Him, He turns away from you. Fair.

    Most importantly, I want to remind you that in the last days scoffers will come, mocking the truth and following their own desires. They will say, “What happened to the promise that Jesus is coming again? From before the times of our ancestors, everything has remained the same since the world was first created.” They deliberately forget that God made the heavens by the word of His command, and He brought the earth out from the water and surrounded it with water. Then He used the water to destroy the ancient world with a mighty flood. And by the same word, the present heavens and earth have been stored up for fire. They are being kept for the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed. 2 Peter 3:3-7 (NLT)

    But let me clarify. Although earth is like a hell; it’s also a foreshadowing of heaven too.. My name is newfoundjoy!

    I’m not rich and i don’t have a million friends but everything i have is real.

    “It’s better to have a little bit of real than a whole lot of fake..” –Peggy Miene

    Better to be an ordinary person with a servant than to be self-important but have no food. Proverbs 12:9

    How many ‘friends’ do you know have whom you only have superficial ties with?

    There are “friends” who destroy each other, but a real friend sticks closer than a brother. Proverbs 18:24

    “All your allies will turn against you. They will help to chase you from your land. They will promise you peace while plotting to deceive and destroy you. Your trusted friends will set traps for you, and you won’t even know about it. Obadiah 1:7

    I’ve written about this many times before here. Having too many friends destroys.

    With their words, the godless destroy their friends, but knowledge will rescue the righteous. Proverbs 11:9

    Don’t trust in your friends; many people have been brought down by their ‘friends.’

    Look at Herman Cain. That woman who ultimately brought down his whole campaign was called a ‘friend.’ Herman Cain even says “I thought she was my ‘friend’ but I guess she obviously isn’t” something to that affect.

    Because of the miraculous signs Jesus did in Jerusalem at the Passover celebration, many began to trust in Him. But Jesus didn’t trust them, because He knew human nature. No one needed to tell Him what mankind is really like. John 2:23-25 (NLT)

  294. Peggy Miene

    i’ve noticed something, a person can have a whole bunch of friends and no honest answers.. what a waste..
    no one to be absolutely real with…i feel sorry for people like that. They are the walking blind.

    Now on to Bob; this thought came to me yesterday:

    He’s a pimp, he is; totally.

    He’s pimping out those people on “amazing strangers”.

    I’m gonna stick with Inna’s post, I could use others but, hers is the most present in my mind.

    How many people got the opportunity to call her all these nasty names because Bob posted that?

    Is he really a friend to her?

    Do you want to know what I think?

    Of course you don’t.

    But that’s why I was gifted with the ability of being a loner and not caring about impressing people.

    I think Bob uses the “Amazing Strangers” to promote his “Jesus Dress Up”.

    The fact that it’s all linked up to each other is highly suspect. The one leads people to the other.

    He’s like a snake charmer to the people; he gives them flash up front; ‘Amazing Strangers’ but all the while the real action is happening in the back: MONEY!!!!!.

    He lures them in with “Amazing Strangers” and then gets their money with the “Jesus Dress Up.”

    He’s been making money off of the life blood of these people; and all you guys who come out of the wood work like little roaches and rats are helping him and applauding him to do it more and more. And you guys think of yourselves as ‘good people’.

    YOU’RE LYING TO YOURSELF.

    What do rats and roaches do?

    They live off of the scraps of others instead of making something for themselves.

    Leaches.

    You guys are the worst people.

    Think of Bob as a King; a very corrupt king or a Mafioso, even like a Hitler, and you guys are his cronies his helpers. Some of you are his bodyguards. Some of you are his advisers; some of you are his cheerleaders; some of you handle his Public Relations/ Public image; do damage control.

    It’s the same stories over and over again..

    But what should you rats and roaches really be doing?

    You should be helping those who can’t defend themselves.

    This is why I don’t have any friends because most people don’t want to do the right thing; they just want to think about themselves and be comfortable, drink a few beers and kick back.

    Atheist, you can keep your friends; I’d rather do the right thing; thanks though.

    Learn to do good. Seek justice. Help the oppressed. Defend the cause of orphans. Fight for the rights of widows. Isaiah 1:17

    They deprive the poor of justice and deny the rights of the needy among My people. They prey on widows and take advantage of orphans. Isaiah 10:2

    They take bribes to let the wicked go free, and they punish the innocent. Isaiah 5:23 (NLT)

    What sorrow for those who say that evil is good and good is evil, that dark is light and light is dark, that bitter is sweet and sweet is bitter. What sorrow for those who are wise in their own eyes and think themselves so clever. Isaiah 5:20-21 (NLT)

    Bob’s days are numbered.

    I wrote this earlier;

    there was this woman who wrote to Bob; named Joy.

    I think it’s a happy coincidence; her being a ‘Joy’ and me being a ‘Newfoundjoy’.

    And she said she would pray for something to come along Bob’s path to get his attention. Maybe it’s me. Maybe I’m just the right type.

    I feel so sorry for him, because it’s the beginning of the end for him.

    You know how the saying goes.

    “It’s always darkest before the dawn?”

    Well wouldn’t the opposite be true too?

    It’s always brightest before the darkness comes?

    I told Bob to work fast and he has, he’s got his little bus and he’s expanding. Good boy…

    All those heads on Bob’s shoulders; can you imagine all the people who have attributed their ‘freedom’ from God to Bob.

    How many times have people written to him saying “when I found your site I throw off the last remaining bits of my Christianity; thank you Bob”

    Where is Bob going to run? He’s put himself in an awful predicament and in such a public arena for all to see; interesting; I can’t wait to see myself.

    But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in Me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea. “What sorrow awaits the world, because it tempts people to sin. Temptations are inevitable, but what sorrow awaits the person who does the tempting. Matt 18:6-7 (NLT)

    He’s like Gaddafi. One day he’s going to be running for his life and the people will rip him apart maybe even his own people; the people he used; the people he tricked; the people who ‘loved’ him.

    It’s the same stories over and over again but you guys are too stupid to see it. The world isn’t really that big at all. It’s actually pretty small.

    It’s time for him to learn the Fear of God..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdElG_JX88I

  295. Atheist

    Peggy Miene I had read your last posts…..it´s look like that you are afraid to find some friends because they just drink beer and get drunk. Yes you are right it´s hard just to have friends there are drunk. Then you are going to drink with them when you not want to….sad!

    I have an idea that I just want you to think about…..why don´t you find some christians friends who you could talk to about your christians faith. Maybe in your area there are a christian community where you can be together with other people who also belive in Jesus…..and maybe this christian community doesn´t drink alcohol….is there a church with a christian community? Do you go to the church?

    Be together with some people who think and act like you do….give it a try :-)

    It´s sad when people isolate them self.

    Think about what I have said….and do something about it.

    I have a question to you…..personally I don´t believe in Jesus but you think he is real……do you think Jesus want you to be alone?

    Think also about that last question.

  296. Peggy Miene

    Atheist

    I’m a loner, i always have been; the only reason i ever had friends was because they were my running mates; people to smoke with, drink beer with; get pot with; you know running mates. I’d get stoned and then put my head phones on; or when we’d go clubbing i would always go off on my own and walk around the club by myself; I’m independent.

    Me, i like to be in my head though;

    there are people like that; I’m a very solitary type of person… I just like it that way.

    I have my husband and my son; we have a lot of fun together; my home is a little paradise.

    I think Jesus wants me to be who I’m supposed to be;

    I am a loner type; that’s one of the reasons why i’m so well suited to evangelize the way that i do to go to the places that i go; i don’t fall for peer pressure; i don’t care about what people think.

    I should have worded it differently I should have said “who can win with people like that in the world?” instead of using the word friends.

    i’m here to evangelize but

    i think it’s really sweet how you’re so concerned for me; i hope that answers your question; if not pray for me.

    I’m not sad because I don’t have friends; I’m sad because people are so crappy.

    Anyways feel free to ask me any other questions.

  297. Peggy Miene

    i had thought about something; on one of Bob’s youtube posts someone wrote something about the amazingstrangers being actors.

    actually if they are actors then that would shut me up;

    because even the people on reality TV get paid.

    (for just being themselves i mean)

  298. Peggy Miene

    I was watching a movie with my son the other day called “James and the Giant Peach”. We’ve seen it many times, but I noticed something in it this time around that I hadn’t noticed before.

    I noticed how at the onset of James’s adventure he’s confronted with all the things his mean old aunts had always told him to keep him down and afraid.

    While out in the ocean the first obstacle that comes his way is a mechanical shark that spews out fish heads on a plate reminiscent of the fish head dinner his aunts mockingly served him.

    Then in a nightmare he sees himself as a caterpillar and his aunts spraying a mist of bug killer spray trying to choke him out all the while chanting “the rhino will get you”. They were in his head.

    This is a common theme in mythology; from what I understand (not that I’ve read much of it) but the protagonist always has to confront a series of obstacles to break through; to get free; maybe even to turn into a butterfly; or a real boy like in Pinocchio. Not succumbing to the world and it’s lies but to the truth.

    Satan uses a lot of lies to keep people down; to keep them all marching in step and to keep them in line. The majority of people fall for this too scared to look different.

    It’s usual to be confronted by many, many obstacles when breaking free from him and his system though. It’s usual to confront many obstacles before waking up and they’re always personal to the person going through it. I guess it’s a way to test your faith. Do you really want it bad enough that you would go through hell on earth to get it? Most people won’t. They love their comfort too much (or what they perceive as comfort). They’d rather be dead than truly alive and soaring.

    I think that people see these obstacles as bad omens and that’s exactly what satan wants. He operates in fear. He makes you think that your security is tied up in people, or money, or beauty and the truth is your security isn’t tied up any of these things at all.

    Test it; really test it.

    Go through it to find out.

    When you have God; you have it all.

    God strips away your dependence on everything; food, money, tv, people/friends, status, all this stuff. They aren’t as important to you as they once were.

    Not that a person doesn’t need these things; that’s not what I’m saying. What I mean is that your dependence on them as them being your security; what makes you feel secure and peaceful; that goes away and you start to see that there really isn’t much to this place we call earth.

    There’s not much here.

    In fact (and I’ve written about this before) the only thing here is God.

    Believe me: once you’ve met God and tasted Him, nothing else will compare or satisfy; you could have all these other things at your feet but you don’t want them. What you will want is God. To be closer to Him, to have Him teach you more. It’s amazing.

    I have to clarify a couple of things before I go on because I know people are going to twist this up. I think I should clarify:

    1- The different types of fear: The Fear of God vs. Fear (phobias) the fear that satan uses against us.

    2- The difference between breaking thru toward freedom and breaking thru toward slavery that mimics freedom.

    The Bible talks about having fear for the Lord which is a respect and awe for Him.

    Fear of the LORD is the foundation of true knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline. Prov 1:7 (NLT)

    Fearing people is a dangerous trap, but trusting the LORD means safety. Prov 29:25 (NLT)

    Such love has no fear, because perfect love expels all fear. If we are afraid, it is for fear of punishment, and this shows that we have not fully experienced His perfect love. 1 John 4:18 (NLT)

    Fear of God is not the same as living with fear: phobias, or fearing people.

    For God has not given us a spirit of fear and timidity, but of power, love, and self-discipline. 2 Tim 1:7 (NLT)

    And then there’s the fear that a person has because of God’s wrath on them. I would say that this kind of fear is one that is expressed through restlessness and constantly seeking reassurance from people so that you ‘feel’ like you are on the right track even though you feel restless within yourself; no peace.

    And anyone who believes in God’s Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn’t obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God’s angry judgment.” John 3:36 (NLT)

    The peace that God gives is a different kind of peace than what the world tries to offer.

    God’s peace is one that is calm even though everything around you is falling apart (or not falling apart).

    What I mean is that the peace God gives isn’t based on how well things are going in our lives. It doesn’t matter what’s happening: good or bad, as long as God is there; nothing is wrong; He’s got everything under control.

    I’m getting to the point where I don’t worry about anything anymore.

    Don’t worry about anything; instead, pray about everything. Tell God what you need, and thank him for all he has done. Philippians 4:6

    This is pretty amazing for someone as anxious as I used to be; I worried about everything; I wanted to control everything.

    Anytime I feel an anxiety come on or a fear I start to tell God about it.

    That’s it.

    I just tell Him everything and it goes away (I’ve been practicing for about two years on this- so it might not be the same for you at first so don’t give up if it’s not).

    I wanted to write this today because the deeper I get to know God and His word the more I see the contrast between what the world offers and what God offers and they are so different; and I wouldn’t have gotten here if I constantly backed away when satan would send some force to scare me.

    I grew up in a real critical house for example (this is what I mean by saying that satan’s attacks {obstacles} are personal to us as individuals), if I stopped every time satan sent me a critical person I wouldn’t get anything done.

    How many times did people tell me to shut up and how many times did people tell me that God isn’t true or real.

    And how many times did they give me an opportunity to persevere even more and check what they said or go to God in prayer about it and Him proving them wrong. Everything they said was a whole bunch of lies.

    The Bible is true; I looked for them and I couldn’t find them anymore.

    I have seen wicked and ruthless people flourishing like a tree in its native soil. But when I looked again, they were gone! Though I searched for them, I could not find them! Psalms 37:35-36 (NLT)

    And it happens over and over again. It’s becoming like water rolling off of my back now.

    They don’t get in my head anymore. I know the game already; I know how he (satan) plays the game now.

    I can go after my dreams and not be afraid.

    I also wanted to make a distinction between people breaking thru to freedom contrasted by people who are breaking thru to slavery.

    What the world calls freedom is really slavery and death and chains. Our security and peace depend on these things that are changeable. They don’t stay the same from day to day. That’s being a slave to things you cannot control.

    Also when you getting free; don’t think there will be a whole lot of people supporting you. There won’t be.

    People are like crabs in the sense that while you are getting free; they want to pull you down. I’ve never seen it myself, but I’ve heard that when a crab is trying to escape and reaches the rim of the container they are in all the other crabs will pull that crab down.

    When you’re doing the wrong thing there always seems like there are people there cheering you on. It’s like they get a kick out of seeing you destroy yourself.

    It’s odd.

    Notice it; it’s happening.

    And don’t get it confused.

    When you’re breaking free; everybody hates you, not just a few people; everybody.

    When you’re doing the right thing; no one wants to touch you; because you make the people around you feel bad about themselves.

    You’re like a mirror that forces them to look at themselves. That’s a good thing; keep doing it and don’t be afraid to do it. You might challenge them to do better: to see God. That’s the best thing you could give someone.

    But if you are doing the wrong things they compare themselves to you and feel better about themselves or not as bad about themselves. Misery loves company. That’s human nature.

    Another thing I noticed about the movie was at the end when he confronts his aunts after he realizes the truth that they are the ones who are nothing because they never did anything of value but try sponge off of him for their livelihoods: that they were the ones trying to keep him down. He realizes all that he accomplished. He realizes that they were trying to take his dreams away from him. They were trying to stomp him down and instill fear into him. (Not the fear of God- that fear sets you free) but the fear of life.

    These themes are also in the kids movie “A Bugs Life” where the ants start realizing that the grasshoppers are really just big bullies sponging off of their work and in the movie “the Truman Show” with Jim Carrey. Ed Harris’ character uses fear to keep Truman from venturing off into the ocean (the set).

    Then that opens up a whole new subject.

    Who’s the architect?

    It’s satan.

    Anyways; I probably could have written this better. But oh well; it’s just a thought

  299. Peggy Miene

    Dr. John Lennox, a mathematician, said something that; I’m finding to be true more and more.

    That atheists go on and on about how there is no evidence for the Bible, God and/or Jesus, but then when you give them evidence they all of a sudden become uninterested.

    Practice makes perfect. I wish more Christians would put their beliefs to the test.

    I know they would/ will find the exercise gratifying and draw them closer to God. But of course “people are people” (-Depeche Mode) and people have a tendency of being scared to try things etc.

  300. Peggy Miene

    boy, i tell you, i’m tired… i’ve was debating for a whole month; longer actually. But thank God, i feel my strength coming back..

    Why do people get along so terribly? What makes a man hate another man? (sin)

    “We’ve eradicated the word sin from our vocabularies. We’ve lost our identity: we don’t know who we are anymore.” – Ravi Zacharias

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvu5EpWnngE

    good lyrics..

  301. Peggy Miene

    this is one of my favorite songs (especailly done this way) \

    it helps me remember where i’ve come from.. and who i am..

    (i was never a cutter though- at least not with a knife..)

    this is for anyone who can relate..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycqv0v-yDQE&feature=channel_video_title

    lyrics:

    I’m not a stranger
    No I am yours
    With crippled anger
    And tears that still drip sore

    A fragile frame aged
    With misery
    And when our eyes meet
    I know you see

    I do not want to be afraid
    I do not want to die inside just to breathe in
    I’m tired of feeling so numb
    Relief exists I find it when
    I am cut

    I may seem crazy
    Or painfully shy
    And these scars wouldn’t be so hidden
    If you would just look me in the eye
    I feel alone here and cold here
    Though I don’t want to die
    But the only anesthetic that makes me feel anything kills inside

    I do not want to be afraid
    I do not want to die inside just to breathe in
    I’m tired of feeling so numb
    Relief exists I find it when
    I am cut
    Pain
    I am not alone
    I am not alone

    I’m not a stranger
    No I am yours
    With crippled anger
    And tears that still drip sore

    But I do not want to be afraid
    I do not want to die inside just to breathe in
    I’m tired of feeling so numb
    Relief exists I found it when
    I was cut

  302. Peggy Miene

    what i like the most about this song and the images is that (at least for me) it gives the impression of someone who is mute; there’s a lot inside but it doesn’t know how to get out…for such a long time i didn’t know how to talk.. it was like two different people. i couldn’t get to the person inside..the person i would present to the world was just functioning.. i’d go thru the motions but i wasn’t a real person.. i talked and i seemed to be there; but it was all shallow… superfical talk.. nothing talk.. anyways.. maybe someone will like it and if not; i’m sure someone who is too scared to be vulnerable will come and be mad at me for making them ‘feel’ something.. Ohhh it sucks to ‘feel’ doesn’t it?? yep, been there done that… it’s so uncomfortable..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycqv0v-yDQE&feature=channel_video_title

    I’m not a stranger
    No I am yours
    With crippled anger
    And tears that still drip sore

    A fragile frame aged
    With misery
    And when our eyes meet
    I know you see

    I do not want to be afraid
    I do not want to die inside just to breathe in
    I’m tired of feeling so numb
    Relief exists I find it when
    I am cut

    I may seem crazy
    Or painfully shy
    And these scars wouldn’t be so hidden
    If you would just look me in the eye
    I feel alone here and cold here
    Though I don’t want to die
    But the only anesthetic that makes me feel anything kills inside

    I do not want to be afraid
    I do not want to die inside just to breathe in
    I’m tired of feeling so numb
    Relief exists I find it when
    I am cut
    Pain
    I am not alone
    I am not alone

    I’m not a stranger
    No I am yours
    With crippled anger
    And tears that still drip sore

    But I do not want to be afraid
    I do not want to die inside just to breathe in
    I’m tired of feeling so numb
    Relief exists I found it when
    I was cut

  303. Peggy Miene

    “It’s obvious you hate me; Though I’ve done nothing wrong; I’ve never even met you so what could I have done; I can’t understand; What makes a man; Hate another man
    Now you’re punching; And you’re kicking; And you’re shouting at me; I’m relying on your common decency; So far it hasn’t surfaced; But I’m sure it exists; It just takes a while to travel; From your head to your fists” –Depeche Mode

    I just realized something.

    This goes back to the whole witch hunt theme and I think I’d like to incorporate the topic of friends that ‘Atheist’ brought up.

    This morning I was flipping through the channels and on the history channel they are airing an in depth look at the movie done about Dan Brown’s book “Angels and Demons.”

    I never saw the movie nor does the in depth look interest me because their perspectives are all wrong so it’s like a waste of time; it’s all sensationalism.

    Anyways while watching the small piece that I did watch, a thought dawned on me.

    I understand what Jesus was talking about when He said things like these: (it’s a long one)

    “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you build tombs for the prophets your ancestors killed, and you decorate the monuments of the godly people your ancestors destroyed.30 Then you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would never have joined them in killing the prophets.’31 “But in saying that, you testify against yourselves that you are indeed the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.32 Go ahead and finish what your ancestors started.33 Snakes! Sons of vipers! How will you escape the judgment of hell?34 “Therefore, I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers of religious law. But you will kill some by crucifixion, and you will flog others with whips in your synagogues, chasing them from city to city.35 As a result, you will be held responsible for the murder of all godly people of all time—from the murder of righteous Abel to the murder of Zechariah son of Barachiah, whom you killed in the Temple between the sanctuary and the altar.36 I tell you the truth, this judgment will fall on this very generation.
    Jesus Grieves over Jerusalem
    37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God’s messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn’t let Me.38 And now, look, your house is abandoned and desolate. 39 For I tell you this, you will never see Me again until you say, ‘Blessings on the one who comes in the name of the LORD!’ ” Matt 23:29-39 (NLT) –end of quote.

    It’s the same story over and over. People who did/do witch hunts and the like weren’t/aren’t real Christians.

    The people who carry these out were/are false Religious Leaders and the people who follow them.

    It doesn’t matter that you’re atheists mind you; the corruption is the same. You guys want to inherit the earth; take it for yourselves; just like all corrupt people who want to do it without going thru God.

    “I tell you the truth, anyone who sneaks over the wall of a sheepfold, rather than going through the gate, must surely be a thief and a robber! But the one who enters through the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. John 10:1-2 (NLT) –end of quote

    It’s just like you guys who constantly point to how supposed ‘Christians’ killed these ‘witches’ and/ or the Salem Witch Trials and/ or the Inquisitions; to justify your position but you guys are doing the same things now.

    It’s you people who did it.
    It’s you people who did it.
    It’s you people who did it.

    I understand.

    If someone comes talking about God and the things of God or not even about God but about doing the right things; you automatically hate them.

    “If I said anything wrong, you must prove it. But if I’m speaking the truth, why are you beating Me?” John 18:23 (NLT) –end of quote

    It’s people like you who kill the prophets. Or whatever names you choose to slap on us such as ‘crazies’ or ‘witches’ or demon possessed.

    Students are to be like their teacher, and slaves are to be like their master. And since I, the master of the household, have been called the prince of demons, the members of My household will be called by even worse names! Matthew 10:25 –end of quote

    It’s corrupt people.

    You twist it.

    You make a big stand for these poor ‘witches’ who were killed; as if you would have done something different back in the day or as if you would have been ‘open mined’ or as if the people who killed them were so evil and so unlike you but you are doing the same things now.

    You’re doing it right now.

    But for the fact that you don’t have the opportunity to kill me, in actuality (for real), you guys would have killed me.

    In fact, you all have already killed me by hating me for no reason, and making fun of me and ‘supposedly’ ignoring me.

    Murder Begins in the Heart:
    “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder’ and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother WITHOUT CAUSE shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire. Matthew 5:21-22 –end of quote

    You make a big stand for these poor people who were persecuted and killed while you’re killing me.

    Hypocrites.

    The judgment lives on you and this here is a whole page of evidence.

    All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants. John 3:20-21 (NLT)
    Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness; instead, expose them. Eph 5:11 (NLT)
    But their evil intentions will be exposed when the light shines on them, for the light makes everything visible. Eph 5:13-14 (NLT) –end of quotes

    One of the things that ‘Atheist’s’ question about ‘friends’ brought to light for me was that it reminded me of who my friends treated me back in the day; it was my friends who kicked me out.

    They were the ones who were supposed to be so ‘open minded’ but they were only ‘open minded’ when it came to doing wrong. Whenever I would say ‘this is wrong’ they didn’t like me anymore; they didn’t want to hang out with me anymore.

    I never kicked them out; I wanted to be their friends but they wouldn’t have me. I always wanted the best for them but they didn’t like that. They thought I was a goody toe shoes. They always made fun of me.

    If I wasn’t as degraded as they were then I wasn’t ‘cool’ enough.

    I never wanted to be that ‘cool.’

    For you will be expelled from the synagogues, and the time is coming when those who kill you will think they are doing a holy service for God. This is because they have never known the Father or Me. John 16:2-3 (NLT) –end of quote

    And since we are His children, we are His heirs. In fact, together with Christ we are heirs of God’s glory. But if we are to share His glory, we must also share His suffering. Romans 8:17 (NLT) –end of quote

    Just like Jesus was hated; His followers will be hated.
    Just like Jesus was raised from the dead, so will we.

    If everything belongs to Him then everything belongs to me and I didn’t have to kill or steal for it like you; it was given to me outright.

  304. Peggy Miene

    Peggy sussed (sussed british for ‘figured out):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBoDT2y48dg

    I can feel Geography
    I can feel the ground and
    I can feel the pull of the train
    (Hallelujah!)

    Lights on beneath the sea
    I’m a broke leg pony that’s winning the race
    (Hallelujah!)

    Mickey walks on the face of the water
    He makes bad good
    And he makes the dirt clean
    (Hallelujah!)

    I’m touched by the hand of Mickey
    I’m sugar on a stick
    (Hallelujah!)

    Eeeven you would laugh out loud
    Tied to a balloon
    (Hallelujah!)

    An image of your face
    A picture of you
    (Hallelujah!)

    Inside a fate
    This is my car
    Or it could be one day when I make it

    This is me in the picture
    And in walks someone skinny
    (Hallelujah!)

    Killing time on the line
    Between home and the hog
    (Hallelujah!)

    Feel the fizz
    The electricity run through you!
    (Hallelujah!)

  305. Peggy Miene

    This verse struck me this evening in reference to how the Romans (as a majority) weren’t as aware of Jesus as the Jews themselves were.

    Here Pilate, the governor of Judea, (which was a province of the Northern Kingdom of Judah before the Roman take over around 63 B.C.) states to Jesus that “he isn’t a Jew to know anything about Jesus.”

    In other words that “it was the Jews who brought Jesus to him.”

    Here Read:
    Then Pilate went back into his headquarters and called for Jesus to be brought to him.
    “Are you the king of the Jews?” he asked Him.
    Jesus replied, “Is this your own question, or did others tell you about Me?”
    “Am I a Jew?” Pilate retorted. “Your own people and their leading priests brought You to me for trial. Why? What have You done?” John 18:33-35 (NLT) –end of quote

    And this I’m just including for no particular reason; just because I find it interesting. This is Pilate basically stating over and over again that he as a standing judge over Jesus found no reason to execute Him.

    Pilate went outside again and said to the people, “I am going to bring Him out to you now, but understand clearly that I find Him not guilty.” John 19:4 (NLT)
    “Take Him yourselves and crucify Him,” Pilate said. “I find Him not guilty.” John 19:6 (NLT)
    Pilate turned to the leading priests and to the crowd and said, “I find nothing wrong with this Man!” Luke 23:4 (NLT) –end of quotes

    Pilate understood, (perceived) very well that it was jealousy that was driving the Religious Leaders’ motivations against Jesus.

    “Would you like me to release this ‘King of the Jews’?” Pilate asked. (For he realized by now that the leading priests had arrested Jesus out of envy.) Mark 15:9-10 (NLT) -end of quote

    More verses that imply that the Religious Leaders were just jealous of Jesus:

    Then the leading priests and Pharisees called the high council together. “What are we going to do?” they asked each other. “This Man certainly performs many miraculous signs. If we allow Him to go on like this, soon everyone will believe in Him. John 11:47-48 (NLT)
    Then the Pharisees said to each other, “There’s nothing we can do. Look, everyone has gone after Him!” John 12:19 (NLT) -end of quotes

    A bunch of good stuff.

  306. Peggy Miene

    if you can’t stand up against a Christian and make him/her leave (a mere person); how will you ever stand before God??

    think about it.

    they must have something you don’t?

    Look at the title of this page;

    “Newfound Joy part 2″

    this is my page; my hill, i fought for it, i won it, and i’m the only one standing Thanks only to God, given to me and named after me by an enemy; can you imagine?

    The Bible states that if we follow Him, He will cause even our enemies to bless us.

    Read:
    Why do you boast about your crimes, great warrior? Don’t you realize God’s justice continues forever?
    All day long you plot destruction. Your tongue cuts like a sharp razor; you’re an expert at telling lies.
    You love evil more than good and lies more than truth. You love to destroy others with your words, you liar!
    But God will strike you down once and for all. He will pull you from your home and uproot you from the land of the living.
    The righteous will see it and be amazed. They will laugh and say,
    “Look what happens to mighty warriors who do not trust in God. They trust their wealth instead and grow more and more bold in their wickedness.”
    But I am like an olive tree, thriving in the house of God.
    I will always trust in God’s unfailing love.
    I will praise You forever, O God, for what You have done. I will trust in Your good Name in the presence of Your faithful people.
    Psalms 52:1-9 (NLT)

    beautiful!! and true; i’m living proof.. thank You Jesus Christ..

  307. Peggy Miene

    I’ve been reading this book by Ray Comfort called: “Evolution a Fairy Tale for Grownups” and it systematically lists evolutionary questions and then the answers and then their sources. He lists sources for every single piece of information.

    As I was reading a thought came to me about Charles Darwin. It’s almost as if he were allowed to be famous only to be an example of how wrong he was.

    That’s the whole point I wanted to make. Simple. Charles Darwin and his theories seem to have only been allowed to be so famous so that it would be an example of how wrong it was. Now after about roughly 140 years after the writing of “On the Origin of Species” it’s becoming more and more clear that everything; ok, I’ll be fair; “most” of what he thought was wrong.

    It was good though, it was useful because it allowed for a premise from which to work from. He set up the theory and then everyone, for and against set out to either prove or disprove it.

    It gave everyone something to focus on; and here we are today.

    Nothing goes to waste. God uses everything.

    “This is the Lord’s doing, and it is wonderful to see.” Psalms 118:23 (NLT)

  308. Peggy Miene

    i just came up with a good comeback.

    there’s this comic (don’t remember which one) who has this joke about coming up with good come backs way after the fact; anyways…

    this one goes back to Nov 20th & 21st when Aaron asked me if God could make trees grow out of clouds. (there’s more background to it; actually he was responding to something i wrote…anyways)

    Aaron: “Can God make a tree come out of a cloud?”

    background- then i responded by saying something along the lines of it not being practical, then Aaron came back with something like…

    Aaron “I didn’t ask if it was practical, i asked if He could do it?”

    Ok, here’s the come back:

    Well if you were smart enough to understand you would see that i did answer the question.

    It’s not ‘practical’

    Here’s an example:

    Could you drive your car into a building? Yes you could, but why would you? It doesn’t make any sense to.

    Making a tree grow out of a cloud (from God’s all-knowing perspective) may not have any practical use.

    (i actually think i can see that from my limited point of view but moving on)

    Some people ask (since the Bible states this) “If God can do anything, why can’t He lie?”

    The reason is because He isn’t corrupt. He can’t go against Himself. If He were a corrupt God then He would be able to lie.

    Since He is a good God, to lie would be nonsensical; it wouldn’t make any sense. The logic wouldn’t follow in a consistent manner.

    Ok, back to the car thing.

    The only way a normal person driving his car into a building would make sense would be if he were trying to get something out of it as in a scam, or something; a scheme to defraud the insurance company (hey i didn’t say it was a good, well tought out plan)

    so to wrap things up, the point is that it would have to make sense. there would have to be a reason why a tree would grow out of a cloud.

    The whole reason i brought it up (to which Aaron, fixated on) was to point out how there was order in the world. i think i said something like “have you ever noticed that a tree never grows out of a cloud? As long as there have been trees, not one has grown out of a cloud…impling that there is a fixed order, somethings never change”

    anyways… back to my winter vacation…loves it… i’ve been like a hybrinateing (can’t spell) bear… fat and sleepy…

  309. Peggy Miene

    Thanks to God, no matter what happens to me, no matter what a thing looks like, i keep trying and i never give up…that goes against every normal human inclination doesn’t it? think about it.

  310. Peggy Miene

    Steve Bentley:

    Sorry, I haven’t gotten back to you until now, (computer troubles and I was sick- thanks for being patient though)

    ((((VERY IMPORTANT))) READ THIS PARAGRAPH FIRST: There are a few parts to answering this question. I’ve even labeled it so that you won’t have to read it all. You can just read the first sentences and if that’s still too long winded there’s a summary so you don’t have to read any of it if you don’t want to. You can just scroll down to the bottom and get one line. I tried to make it really simple for those who are really simple. I don’t mean it in an offense way although you can take it like that if you want; I’m just trying to cover all angles. Even if you don’t read it all; it gave me good practice; so thanks; it flexed my brain muscles…There’s also an Einstein tidbit just before I start answering.

    An honest question deserves an honest answer, but I have to say, if you don’t like the answer don’t do what Einstein did.

    When he came up with the theory of relativity the theory itself suggested that the universe had a beginning and Einstein didn’t like that idea because he knew instinctively that it implied the existence of God, so he changed his calculations and added a ‘cosmological constant’ to the equation in an attempt to get rid of the ‘beginning.’ He did this to suit his ideas instead of going where the evidence led. That mistake cost him (he regretted it) because Erwin Hubble ended up being able to take claim to that ‘discovery’ (that the universe was expanding hence it had a beginning and will one day have an end).

    I like that story because it shows me that God cannot be mocked.

    If only Einstein would have humbled himself to the truth, he would have been able to get all the honor and glory that was due to him, but I guess when a person isn’t honest, they lose out on honor and glory which reminds me of “poetic justice.” I love how things always seem to balance in the end like an accountant’s ledger; everything always ends up working out evenly?

    Anyways here’s my answer to your question; as best as I can describe (remember I’m still learning myself- and if I dwell on it longer I’m sure I’ll get better ideas later. Let’s see what happens).

    1: Jesus isn’t a person like we are; or should I say “He’s not JUST a person.”

    He’s the Son of man (human) and the Son of God (God/ equal to being God etc)

    So the Jewish leaders tried all the harder to find a way to kill Him (Jesus). For He not only broke the Sabbath, He called God His Father, thereby making Himself equal with God. John 5:18 (NLT)

    If anything I would say (with my limited understanding) that God thru out all that He’s done in history and all that He is doing thru out time, He’s actually answering everybody- if they want to see it.

    In a way Jesus being half man/ half God (for lack of a better explanation) answers some mythology.

    NOTE: I don’t mean that it gives any credit to mythology, but that it kind of answers it like a response.

    For example:
    Where there were stories of extraordinary men/women turned to legend; Jesus was the real thing; the real embodiment of so many man-created ideas of what was, is and could be.

    Remember that God only revealed Himself to the Jews but He did also work through heathen people and Kings as well, King Cyrus of Persia being one of them.

    I could go on about that but to put it briefly I would say that the more I read the Bible and the deeper I get to understanding it while at the same time understanding secular thought and how they align I can see how God is answering a lot of people’s questions throughout the ages; again most people just don’t want to see it though. They don’t want to be patient and they don’t want to try to understand.

    2: As far as WHY God didn’t make the rest of us like Jesus is because we aren’t ‘gods.’

    Jesus on the other hand was/is the only actual God- Man that ever existed.

    I wouldn’t even call Him a demi-god in actuality because He IS God, and the term ‘demi- god’ implies a being that was born between the union of a ‘god’ and a human that didn’t exist before it was conceived like half god, half human breed and that’s not what Jesus is.

    Jesus IS God. Fully God and fully human; a totally different class all together.

    Jesus does not fit this category because as implied by the Bible Jesus has always existed. John the Baptist said this about Him: “He is the One I was talking about when I said, ‘A man is coming after me who is far greater than I am, for He existed long before me.’ John 1:30 (NLT).

    There are other verses but I’ll try to keep it as short as I can.

    So even though Jesus was born of a human woman and His Father is God He doesn’t fit the ‘demi-god’ category like in mythology of Zeus and his offspring for example. Even the stories are different. Again I could get further into that but I won’t.

    3: You’ve most likely heard this before but when God says “let us make man in Our image” God was talking to the Son and the Holy Spirit Who were with Him.

    Then God said, “Let us make human beings in our image, to be like ourselves. Gen 1:26 (NLT)

    4: I heard it explained like this recently:

    Adam was made in God’s image, but with the fall and ever since then the rest of humanity has been made in Adam’s fallen image. We are sons (daughters) of man. We are sons (daughters) of Adam. We are made in Adam’s fallen image; not God’s.

    We are humans; earthlings; world-lings; unless we are born again. Born of the Sprit.

    God is Spirit and truth; intangible aside from the physical personification of Jesus.

    Here are three verses that might help you see:

    Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit. Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life. John 3:5-6 (NLT)

    But the time is coming—indeed it’s here now—when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will worship Him that way. For God is Spirit, so those who worship Him must worship in spirit and in truth.” John 4:23-24 (NLT)

    So you see, just as death came into the world through a man, now the resurrection from the dead has begun through another man. Just as everyone dies because we all belong to Adam, everyone who belongs to Christ will be given new life. 1 Cor 15:21-22 (NLT)

    That’s probably why we people are so selfish naturally; because we are born of Adam; human.

    A pastor I heard once gave an analogy of what people are like at their rawest (human nature). He made a really good point if you have kids or have ever watched kids or have ever been a kid.

    I guess he was with his son who was a toddler at the time and the toddler wanted to get at the dad’s watch to which the dad kept away from him.

    And this is true, I’ve seen it with my own eyes and I remember doing it myself as a kid.

    The kid threw such a temper tantrum that the father realized that the only thing saving him from this toddler’s rage was the fact that he was a toddler and small.

    The pastor’s point was that human nature; universally; is so self centered and ruthless that if that toddler had the strength of a man, but still the mentality of a toddler, the dad would have been ripped to shreds with no second thought of remorse by the toddler because the toddler wanted what he wanted, which was the watch.

    Anyways back to # 4:

    That’s what the term ‘Son of man’ means. It means human; in other words son of Adam.

    Have you ever heard of a phrase like this:

    “Oh that woman is just so ‘godless’”

    or

    “Don’t you have a fear of God?”

    meaning that the woman (or the person in question)has no morals (no moral compass). No sense of doing the right thing, no compassion, no love, no sense of right and wrong and no sense of one day paying an account for the wrongs she has done; no fear of God. In this case as far as the expression goes; it implies that ‘morals’ ‘goodness’ is attributed to God and that one without them has no god in them.

    5: When Jesus refers to Himself as “Son of Man” (in the New Testament) He’s also making claim to being the Messiah.

    You have to take into consideration (if you want to) that in every generation people talk in the ‘expressions’ that their audiences will understand; the ‘slang’ that’s prevalent for the age etc.

    When Jesus kept referring to Himself as “Son of Man” He knew and understood that His audience (the Jews) would understand what that meant… that He was referring to Himself as the Messiah coupled with the thought that He was a human being.

    If you do a search of the phrase “Son of man” in the Bible, you will see that it’s a phrase used a lot in reference to Ezekiel the prophet who was a mere person; anyways I could go on and on.

    ((((SUMMARY))))
    In a nutshell, the reason why God didn’t make perfect people like Jesus is because Jesus wasn’t made. He has always existed. And we aren’t ‘gods.’ We are human. We were made and are fallen.
    (((( DONE- YOU CAN STOP READING NOW ))))

    In fact, just for fun, here’s a song about exiting the fall. Defying gravity, falling upward.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg03IV-S9io

    Lyrics:

    Empty house far away
    Lost in lonely space
    You know you’ve felt the same
    From the shallows in love
    To the depths of your scars
    You know you want to change
    In the rafters, a vate
    Fixed and spinning late
    There’s a certain fear
    Even light with control
    Lights outside our homes
    Wait for every tear

    So exit the fall
    And now it’s over
    You’re learning
    It’s all before your heart
    So exit the fall
    And now it’s over
    You’re learning
    It’s all before your heart

    I found a way out
    Through everything I’ve known
    I’m walking fearless
    With my faith down and all that I own
    Don’t take my picture
    Cause I won’t be there standing alone
    I’m living fearless, so fearless
    Like every day’s my own

    Steady hands in the planes
    Calculated ways
    To call it ailing in figure
    Hearts far away
    When you work so late
    From a distant end

    So exit the fall
    And now it’s over
    You’re learning
    It’s all before your heart
    So exit the fall
    And now it’s over
    You’re learning
    It’s all before your heart
    And now it’s over
    Before your heart
    And now it’s over
    Before your heart

    Call it what you want it, Call it just a game
    Call it insane, all of these voices
    Call it what you want it, call it just a game
    Call it insane, all of these voices
    Call it what you want it, call it just a game
    Call it insane, all of these voices
    Call it what you want it, call it just a game
    Call it insane, all of these voices
    Call it what you want it, call it just a game
    Call it insane, all of these voices

    [Rapped during previous part]
    I’m calling from the back of your mind
    From the places you’ll never reside
    Where your thoughts collide
    See places and thousands of faces
    All at the same time
    Look, everybody close your eyes
    Travel to the place in the back of your mind
    The place you’ll never reside
    Where thoughts combine
    See places and thousands of faces
    All at the same time
    All at the same time
    All at the same time

  311. Steven Bentley

    OK, Thanks for your reply, Here’s another question:

    If god created every thing, how did Satan an evil being, distrupt heaven, how could anything evil being ever exist with pure goodness?? In other words, no evil being could ever have formed from pure goodness, if the bible god is purely good.

  312. Peggy Miene

    Steve Bentley

    That’s a really good question, actually it’s something I’m going thru with my son right now. It’s going to sound like I’m going about answering it in a roundabout way, but if you have the patience to listen/ read I’ll tell you. Then maybe I’ll end it with a whole bunch of technical theologian stuff.

    My son is 8 years old and I’m getting to the point where I know I have to start letting him go and learn things for himself.

    If I taught him well enough he’ll have to be in a situation where he’ll be able to test the things that I taught him against the things that the world wants to teach him.

    If I taught him well enough then I have to trust that he’ll make the right decisions even when and if he makes mistakes. I can’t keep him protected and sheltered forever. He has to decide for himself which way he wants to go. He has to be able to see both sides of the argument for himself so that he can prove whether what I taught him was bogus or not.

    The same goes for me. If I did do a good job

    (so far; he’s only 8 but now he’ll be more independent; going to his friends house and see how other people live, what they watch, what video games they play what things they say etc).

    I can’t keep telling him that ‘my way’ or ‘God’s way’ is the best if he doesn’t get a chance to really test it. Now I have to put my money where my mouth is. If I really believe what I say I believe I have to put it to the test. See how it stands alone.

    But on the judgment day, fire will reveal what kind of work each builder has done. The fire will show if a person’s work has any value. 1 Corinthians 3:13

    If I just tell him without giving him the freedom to decide for himself, he’ll start to wonder:

    “hmm, why is she protecting me from all this other stuff anyways? Maybe there is something to the ‘world’s way’ that she’s not letting me see for myself; maybe she’s scared that the world is better than God’s way”

    and he’ll start to reject what I taught him even if I shelter him.

    He’ll start to rebel.

    But if I let him go free and test all these things, and he gets to see for himself that these other things aren’t as great as he thought or as they seem then, he’ll reject and rebel against them on his own.

    It won’t be because I just told him to. He’ll compare and when he see it for himself he’ll be able to UNDERSTAND “oh,,, that’s why my mom says this or that; I get it now.”

    I could tell him over and over again: “be careful with the stove, its hot; but he won’t understand until he either accidently (or on purpose) does it.”

    Pain can be very useful if used properly. That’s why we have physical feeling and emotional feelings. They give us indications of what’s going on either outside of use or inside of use.

    Like that game where you have to find something… what do they say? “Am I getting hotter?” to imply that the person is getting closer to the object or “Nope, you’re getting cold” that the person is way off.

    I’ll give you another example:

    I always tell him not to automatically follow his friends. They might not be leading him in the best direction. Friends are so powerful but the funny thing is that they aren’t the most honest.

    You would think that a friend would tell you the truth, but most times that isn’t the case. A friend might not tell you the truth because they don’t want to hurt your feelings or they don’t want to ruin the relationship or because they don’t want to look like the bad guy.

    But a real friend will tell you the truth.

    Sometimes people (human nature) would prefer to protect their own self from feeling pain or getting involved in a ‘sticky’ situation when they know and see their friend going down.

    Rather than helping their friend make a good decision or being brutally honest they would rather protect their own buns. Truthful words hurt but they are the best. I don’t like people who don’t tell me the truth. I get suspicious of too many compliments.

    Fire tests the purity of silver and gold, but a person is tested by being praised. Proverbs 27:21

    Anyways I tell him to think about what his friends are doing or asking him to do before he does it. I tell my son to pay attention to the results of his friend’s actions. Pay attention to things like:

    1-is this friend always in trouble and

    2- why is he always in trouble.

    Side note: sometimes people can get in trouble for doing the right things though hence: ‘no good deed goes unpunished’ but

    3- does this friend get in trouble for doing wrong things.

    If so, maybe this isn’t a friend you should listen to too often.

    Most times a person can learn just by watching.

    Sometimes the wicked are punished to save the godly, and the treacherous for the upright. Proverbs 21:18

    What if judgment day is happening now?

    I don’t know if it is; but sometimes I wonder; what if it’s happening right now as we speak and this is the test. We are actually going through it right now and we won’t let ourselves know it.

    What if the ‘trials’ that the bible talks about are things like peer pressure (persecution) and who we follow and why we follow the things that we follow.

    “For everyone will be tested with fire. Mark 9:49

    Do we do the wrong things so that we won’t be left out?

    Is it because we are too scared to look different from everyone else and we don’t want to stand out?

    That doesn’t seem like a good reason to do something. We should do things because it’s the right thing to do no matter how many people are doing it.

    I mean think about it; it’s people who do things to us, not animals or trees right? It’s us who hurt each other and its each other that we want to impress and miss and want to be close to. We are the ones who have power over each other and can manipulate each other. If a person doesn’t understand things like these then they are doomed I think. How would you know who to follow?

    (((((TECHNICAL THEOLOGIAN STUFF)))))

    Alright now I’ll answer your question head on. I think this is another one that has a few parts to it.

    You’ve probably heard this explanation already but the story goes that God created the angels and Satan was his number one angel. The most beautiful, smart and talented of them all but he fell in love with his own beauty and started thinking that he could do a better job than God.

    This is where pride came in.

    Instead of being happy with what he had and thanking God for what God gave him and for his very high position and authority he wanted to use all those things against God to ascend higher than God his maker.

    This reminds me of the song “Don’t you want me baby” and the dialogue between the man and the woman:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPudE8nDog0&ob=av3e

    In the song: he made her and then when she reached a certain level she wanted to leave him, even like the Monkeys song “I’m not your stepping stone”

    Anyways Satan decided to over throw God and to persuade the other angels to follow him in this rebellion. Satan is a warlock; one who starts wars. Even the angels have free will. (I’ll talk about that more later) so those angels are now demons.

    Satan wanted to compete with God instead of follow Him.

    For God did not spare even the angels who sinned. He threw them into hell, in gloomy pits of darkness, where they are being held until the day of judgment. 2 Peter 2:4 (NLT)

    I heard a really good explanation once about why God didn’t just nip it all in the bud right at the start.

    Bare with me; I’m not really a theologian but I’m going to do my best to retell this explanation.

    If God would have killed off satan (for lack of a better term) then all the other angels (and all of creation) would have ended up agreeing with satan that God was corrupt and perhaps hiding something and should be over thrown (as if that were possible).

    It would make God look like the bad guy when it’s really satan who is the bad guy; so just give satan enough rope to hang himself and then everyone (all of creation; heaven and earth and those in hell too) will see for themselves who’s who. Who’s really the bad guy.

    The expression “If you set something free and it comes back to you then it was really yours” comes to mind.

    Ok, I’m gonna use an analogy:

    Let’s say there is a dad and he has a whole bunch of kids. And one of his kids (let’s call him Mike) decides to rebel against the dad and he wants to convince the other kids to follow him in this rebellion.

    Well if the dad outright kills Mike then all the other kids are gonna be like “Man dad’s a jerk” but if the dad just lets Mike live and follow thru with his rebellion all the kids are gonna eventually see that it’s actually Mike who’s the jerk.

    First of all Mike doesn’t know anything because he’s a kid (or young and stupid by comparison to the dad) so eventually he’s going to make really stupid mistake to which the other kids are going to lose respect for him for being such a bone head.

    Second since he’s so stupid and probably doesn’t have the means to do it Mike won’t be able to fix the mess he’s gotten himself (and those siblings who followed him) into.

    The dad doesn’t’ have to do anything to prove his point, just let Mike be and Mike will do it. Mike will do all the work in that respect.

    If Mike was stupid enough to rebel against a father who loved him, provided for him, taught him and held him to a high standard because dad actually believes in Mike and won’t let him settle for being a loser then I’m sure Mike is stupid enough to make a lot more trouble. You know things like that.

    That’s just one of the reasons why God lets evil abound; there are others but I don’t want to get side tracked.

    I’m glad for the evil that’s been done to me (in a certain way). It made me smarter, because I was the type to be better for it.

    Some people never learn anything:

    (that’s one thing I’m still trying to figure out: why are some people so stubborn even when they have all the facts staring at them?)

    Not because God like evil; or because He’s a masochist who likes to see us suffer or because He can’t stop it.

    It’s because if we can see for ourselves why satan sucks we will reject satan ourselves once we’ve got a taste of him by comparison. If we can see for ourselves why our crappy decisions suck then we will reject following our own ways. We won’t be hell bent.

    Taste and see that the Lord is good. Oh, the joys of those who take refuge in Him! Psalm 34:8

    God lets sin run its course so that we can see the difference. I could go on about that but again, I don’t want to get side tracked.

    ((((NOW I WANT TO WRITE ABOUT LOVE AND FREE WILL)))

    If God didn’t give us free will, then we’d all be programmed to love Him.

    That’s a robot and it isn’t meaningful for a robot to love you because it isn’t real; it has to be told or programmed to love you. It’s cold. It’s a slave.

    Anyone who would settle for a robot to love them doesn’t believe in themselves that they are wroth being loved on their own merit. They must not believe they are good enough to be loved without tricking; or lying to someone to stay with them.

    It’s weird, sick and sad.

    Some people; (my ex; if you read any of my previous stuff) think that the way to make a person love them is to make them sick or scared to leave.

    It’s abusive mind control stuff and it’s sick. It’s disease.

    A normal person would run from something like that.

    Real love has to be free. A person has to decide to love you. God wants us to decide we love Him for ourselves. Real love has risk involved. The person could either love you back or reject you.

    That in itself is enough hurt and pain without adding mental abuse and the like to it. I think that’s one of the ways satan (and all w