17 thoughts on “Award-Winning Author, Dr. Shirley Cheng

  1. Mikey

    Hated to see this one end. I think it’s OK to hate anyone with such a colossal ego. She should write a book on humility. Jesus, she probably already has…..

  2. Demonhype

    Yikes. Just fucking yikes.

    “1) Historically and geographically accurate
    2) Supported by archeology and historians
    3) Honest
    4) Scientifically sound–stating scientific facts before scientists proved them, and doesn’t contradict scientific facts
    5) Every prophecy has been fulfilled literally so far–prophecies that were foretold hundreds of years before the events actually took place
    6) Written by many eye witnesses
    7) Consistent in theme and messages despite having many writers who lived in different time periods and cultures and spoke different languages
    8) Contains universal and timeless wisdom applicable to all”

    Bullshit x 8. Given that the bible is not even one of those things, she is simply demonstrating the very levels of cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias necessary to maintain the self-delusion that we call “faith”. All eight of these points are things believers tend to assume about the bible prior to reading it (if they ever do–you’d be amazed at how many don’t, and immediately accuse me of lying when I hit them with some of gawd’s more unsavory “wisdom and morals”, right up until I open the damn bible and let them see for themselves.)

    And #8? Universal timeless wisdom? All that shit about women needing to be silent and submissive, all that garbage about killing homosexuals, all that guts-n-glory insanity about genocide? All that putrescence about how to beat your slaves? The need of a “perfect, loving God” for blood sacrifice? To name a few? In what universe are the sentiments in the bible either universal or timeless?

    This is why I don’t talk to believers anymore–or not often, anyway. When someone is coming from an ignorant, uneducated assumption that the bible is all of the eight points above (an assumption that crumbles the moment one reads it, much less does an honest study of the facts), there is little you can do to get through to them. They’ve got their blankie and they don’t want to hear it’s not magic–though that doesn’t stop them from insisting you revere their blankie and hold all the same false assumptions about it that they do. It’s like talking to a crazy person, and I refuse to do it anymore.

  3. chris thompson

    Shirley,

    You might as well give up trying to convince Bob of anything. He makes a “living” at this back and forth banter. You have great points, but nothing he doesn’t already have an answer for. You know and I know that faith … belief and trust in God… is a gift from God. It can’t be, nor does it have to be proven to people who haven’t been given that gift. We are supposed to give reasons for our belief… but not argue about it. Plant the seeds.

    and … Hi Bob! I was just wondering if you have ever seen “The Truth Project” series done by Focus on Family? I would be interested in what you think about it. It takes quite a while to view the whole thing. But I am wondering if it would give you some answers.
    - “Motherthomp”

  4. MikeB

    Bob,

    Great responses to Dr. Shirley. It sounds like the dialog I have with fundamentalists at work. Anytime I ask them to prove their bible is inspired, they turn to the verse that says “all scripture is inspired”. They don’t see the complete ignorance of trying to prove a book to be true by reading from the book in question. Hard to believe so many brainwashed people around.

    I am looking forward to more from you and Dr. Shirley.

  5. Thackerie

    A while back, Bob had warned that he might be running out of hate mail from christians to share with us. I’m glad that didn’t happen. IMHO, it’s the most enjoyable part of this website.

    And, the best thing is, it’s self-generating and self-sustaining. Just look at this comment section. The emails of the good “doctor” (who appears to be a dr. in the same way that Dr. Pepper is a dr.) inspired an equally logical assertion by someone who is named both Chris Thompson and MotherThomp.

    She/he/they said, “You know and I know that faith … belief and trust in God… is a gift from God. It can’t be, nor does it have to be proven to people who haven’t been given that gift.”

    Sooooo, since god didn’t see fit to give me this gift and since his/its followers admit they are incapable of proving their faith to me, it’s perfectly peachy keen and right that I will be tortured for eternity? Yep, that makes sense.

    Oh well, at least it gives me something to point to the next time some self-righteous would-be evangelizer tries to recruit me. I can just point to these wise words from Chris Thompson/MotherThomp and tell them not to waste their time. Think it will work?

  6. normalbob Post author

    More has just been added to the Dr. Shirley Cheng files.
    Also, if you have further details to address her 8 evidences, please email me your listed rebuttals (include a photo of yourself) so I can post it in the sidebar of her page.
    I really like it when I can do that.

  7. Amanda

    I looked up Shirley Cheng on the internet. She seems like a smart person who’s been through a lot of trials. It’s a shame she’s so deluded. I hope she’s smart enough to actually think about what you’re saying, Bob. Can’t wait to hear more!

  8. Aaropn

    Has Shirley ever actually read the bible??
    I have no idea how she can make these 8 claims that are clearly proven false by merley opening the bible and reading pg1.

    And why is mother thump still hanging around? I thought she was slaying demons in an inter-dimensional battle for souls between washing and drying laundry?

    Mother Thump seems unable to absorb basic facts or listen to anything Bob ever says to her, she just ignores and glosses over all the logic and (im assuming) repeats “Jesus is lord” in her head (sorry, that should be “Jesus is LORD” ;-)

    Shirley seems a bit more intelligent, and by her own arguments, has proven God to not exist, all she has to do is apply her arguments/logic to the bible (as she has done), then pick one up and read it.

  9. Ryv

    I feel a sudden humanitarian impulse to go deprogram this poor woman!

    Here goes:
    i) I can actually prove that the christian god is neither goodness nor light using that precious, accurate and infallible book the bible (although I use some circuitous logic) nonetheless, it’s in the bible, ergo it MUST be true, right?

    In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw that it was good.
    Genesis, 1. 1

    Okay, so God is not light. Gotcha. That’s pretty straight up. Also, presumably if god was surprised enough by the light to comment on the ‘goodness’ of it, then clearly good was a new thing as well! Now I’m not saying god is evil and darkness, but he certainly is not ‘goodness and light’ otherwise both goodness and light would have existed independently without needing to be ‘created.’

    Another fun fact on genesis and creation is that ‘God created man in his own image. In God’s image he created him; male and female he created them’ (Genesis 1:27). Man is jealous, man is lustful, man is fickle, man is flawed, man is hateful, hurtful, unfaithful, violent, murderous, vengeful, unreasonably demanding, irrational, prone to say one thing and do another, confused, confusing and imperfect. Sounds like god got his image exactly right for god himself is all those things, just look at the commandment on idolatry wherein god confesses to being a jealous god and pretty freaking vindictive to boot! (…for I, Yahweh your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and on the fourth generation of those who hate me, Exodus 20:5)

    ii) Alright, so that’s my opening deprogramming. Next I checked out this poor dame’s site and actually subjected myself to her picking and choosing the sections of the bible that support the theme of her latest theory and picked out a choice few to refute, using (of course) the inarguable truth and validity of verses from the bible (oh, let us bow before the wisdom of the holy book). I reference Dr. Shirley’s site page here http://blog.shirleycheng.com/2010/07/19/is-sex-dirty.aspx and in response to her claim that god doesn’t want sex to be dirty, I cite and explain this verse.

    If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. Leviticus 20:13

    Okay, forgetting that the bible itself contradicts this verse by stating that ‘thou shalt not kill’ on the one hand and demanding people be put to death for this and a multitude of other petty violations of ‘holy law,’ let’s deconstruct this verse and what it means. Now how exactly can one have sex with a man the exact same way one has sex with a woman? The oral is totally different… cunnilingus verses fellatio, penile vaginal is, of course, right out of the picture since neither of two men has a vag, therefore, the only sexual act that actually remains the same whether between male & female or male & male is sodomy. Let’s place the act within the verse and see what god wants:

    If a man sodomizes a man as one sodomizes a woman, both of them have done what is detestable.

    Wait a second here, as one sodomizes a woman? Really? That’s what a man should be doing with his woman?!? Well, I guess I’d better let my man have anal with me, after all, it’s what god wants. But wait, doesn’t god bitch about sodomy later on in the bible? I’m so confused why must the ‘honest’ and ‘consistent in theme and messages’ holy book refute everything it tells me to do?!?

    iii) Here’s a couple bible verses that refute just about every moral stipulation and lifestyle judgment Dr. Shirley makes on her website:

    Matthew 7:1: Judge not, lest you be judged

    James 4:12: There is one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you that you judge your neighbor?

    Romans 14:1-23 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike…

    You see? According to the bible itself only god can judge and pass judgment on others. Anyone who condemns a person for their lifestyle choices or actions is committing the deadly sin of pride as well as basically putting themselves in the role of God (surely a horrible sin and egotistical too)! I can’t help but notice that Dr. Shirley passes a lot of judgments… guess she’s going to hell!

    iii) Finally, returning to the topic of inconsistencies within the bible, I dispute the entire portion of the book wherein Jesus states you can get to heaven just by ‘believing and repenting.’ Subsequent verses of the bible clearly out Jesus as a ‘deceiver’ for making this outrageous claim:

    Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
    1 Corinthians 9-10

    The almighty apostle Paul himself said this, and this verse is supported by 1 Corinthians 15:50 and by Ephesians 5:5 (For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person–such a man is an idolater–has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.)

    So despite Jesus’ claims of forgiveness and acceptance into the kingdom of heaven, if you’ve done any of the aforementioned things, you’re screwed! Of course the bible predicted that Jesus would come and deceive god’s people way back in Deuteronomy 11:16 where god warned the Israelites to “take heed to yourselves, lest your heart be deceived, and you turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them ” and as we can see, people have turned away from their blood sacrifices and tithing to the levite priests and old testament ways to follow Jesus as a god. Hey, there’s one point for Dr. Shirley Cheng, the old testament predicted the false claims of Jesus. Now if only it was factual, honest and all those other wonderful things she claimed it was. Sadly it is merely a book; a book which has been rewritten a multitude of times in a multitude of formats, translated and re-translated and amended until it can be used to support any stance, no matter how morally and ethically repugnant with relevant bible verses. It was written by men, evil men at that, during a time when it was necessary to force a transition from forum, elders and senate into centralized dictatorship under one ruler or king from whom all orders and directives flow, to whom we give our earnings as tithes.

    This book has been used to support countless atrocities from stoning women on suspicion of adultery, committing mass genocide in order to reclaim the holy land (which white christians from the isles of Briton never owned in the first place), templars sacking each others temples, all the way to committing cultural rape in the modern day and age by sending missionaries to the most downtrodden and helpless people they can find in foreign countries offering desperately needed food, medical treatment and clean water with one fatal catch: you must abandon all of your traditional culture and worship that which we worship, in the language we use, or else… NO HELP FOR YOU! I’ve eaten at government funded soup kitchens where the staff force you to pray before you are served your food and withhold your meal if you dare object to taking part in the service. The message is clear, convert or we won’t help you. This to me is rape. If someone desperately needs something you can easily provide and you force them to perform an unnatural and unwanted act to obtain it, how is that any different from getting a single mom to suck your cock for grocery money?

    Anyways, sorry about that, I got off on a rant. I’m going to stop myself now or I’ll be at this all night. Keep up the good work, Bob, I hope some of your rational common sense makes it through to these poor brainwashed saps.

    ~Ryv~

  10. rockchick

    Ryv, amazing rant. It’s nice to see that there is hope for the indoctrinated. Clearly there are people who have been brought up in the lifestyle (as I have called it) only to break free thanks to logical, rational thought. As someone who was raised without any of these fairytails I can only imagine how difficult it must be to break free of this ideology. It would be like coming out gay in 1975.

    I have been cornered a time or two in my life by someone who quoted bible scripture but was unable due to lack of knowledge to respond with any measure of success. Although I won’t remember the exact passages you mentioned here, at least the gist of your argument will be helpful to me in the future. I am getting better at defending my atheism to Christians but the last time it happened a guy told me that carbon dating had been disproved. Of course I ran home to do some research into his claim only to learn that some idiots had tried to carbon date something that could not be carbon dated and then exclaimed that the science was invalid. This is what we are working with! No matter what argument is presented to a religious nut, they go back to their corner to devise a new strategy. Rational thinkers have to learn to stay one step ahead of this nonsense.

    Thanks for a great post. I enjoyed it immensely.

  11. Seas

    Yes, Dr. Shirley saw herself as Bob’s intellectual “equal” and thought she could form an intelligent debate . Well, I can’t blame her, its very tempting to want to hold an argument with an intelligent being like Bob.
    The Bible is one F’d up book. Well actually, its the Torah, and then the second “Testament” of a group of people’s recollection of Jesus’s works and words, told several years later, and then totally reprinted with editing along the way, for a couple of centuries after. Its not going to be the truth. People have a habit of changing things and adding things and taking things away.

    However, Mohammad , now this guy does like to quote the Prophet Jesus, and he does so on several occasions. He liked the guy. He studied him. So I believe there was this “gentle king” that the Muslims talk about. Other men in the Jesus era have made a comment about him, verifying his existence. But circumstances surrounding him, and the things he did, are most likely inflated, or just printed to get people to become Christians.
    Yah, they were killing them until they saw they could control them with fear…and guilt….Then it was a rush to sign them up.
    Jesus was probably observant , who saw a lot of flaws in the Jewish people and their religious rites and thoughts. He also was one of those “goofy” people who believed in life after death. There were a cult back then, he leaned towards. I don’t remember what they were called, but any historian worth their salt will find that for you.
    So the Bible, its like the Torah with a twist. And I heard that even the Jewish people don’t believe in Adam and Eve literally, or Noah and the Ark, or the guy who got swallowed by a big fish, but they used these stories and discussed them in their trying to understand God’s relation to men and visa versa. I do find the history of Egypt worship fascinating. Moses did grow up there and then venture out into the desert to find the Isrealites a new home, he did bring some cool things with him. He drew up some rules on a stone slab, like all Egyptians did. He did tons of Egyptian inspired stuff. Try telling this to a group of devout church ladies in a bible study……
    lol. So hat’s off to your debate with Dr. Shirley and holding your own. I don’t like to argue with people, as it takes away their comfort. Truthfully, I’d love to bump into Jesus , and just talk about all kinds of shit. He sounded smart, talking about how we should just forgive people and stuff. He knew his words would definitely cause lots of hell on earth for everyone, and he wasn’t prophesying, he was just laying it out like it was…and of course he was right.
    I basically thought he only wanted the Israelites to quit being so damned blind, and help them have a different way of relating to people, instead of having to have revenge, forgive. Instead of hating the Romans who moved into the area, along with the soldiers, be kind, say hi, hold open the door, do some work for them….common sense. He also just knew one day he’d finally be betrayed, and so …doesn’t take a rocket scientist or a magician to know that was coming, not back in those days, where every Tom, Dick and Harry was going to “be the next King ” and wage war on the Romans and kick them out once and for all. They all ended up hanging on wood. I pretty much figure, Jesus saw that one coming too. So like, no surprise there. But anyway, I think some of that stuff, the basics, are not to be overlooked, as there were enough accounts to suggest the man lived, and his messages, and how he died. What’s great about the Bible , is all the revisions I have done in my head. The stuff that’s NOT in there! Like, ok, the Ten Commandments? Well, I wager there were more like 80 or more, and Moses was up there, cursing himself for doing this , and regretting it now, and cursing God too, and trying to tap out all these rules into slabs, like the guys did at the slab store in Egypt. He probably got like 5 slabs, and around 50 rules done and was gonna go back and finish, as he was coming down the mountain, he saw them all having a great time, and he just said, ” FUCK IT”. He made sure they all saw him have a histronic fit and smashed the slabs , and then went back up and figured, ” Fuck this, they’ll never be able to do 80 rules, i better make it simple” Thus 10 of the main big ones. And he figured, “MAAAAYBE they can do like 3 or 4 of those . ” So there ya go, my version of Moses and the ten commandments. And when they got to the Promised Land, Moses made sure they all understood he HAD to stay behind, and as they marched away, He was probably laughing and skipping and joyful to be rid of them all. And it was more like 4 months, but felt like 4o years. Thats more likely what actually happened. But you can’t print that shit .
    Anyway, it doth creep me out to see people try to “win” others over without proof too. I wish there were solid proof. We just didn’t have NBC FOX news or ABC or the Internet back then. Word of mouth was the best way, and later, when pen hit the paper, all kinds of re-writing went on. I am not going to trust that.
    We all know by now that every “savior” was born of a virgin, and on Dec 25th. yada yada yada….
    Very disappointing.
    The day I saw for the first time, my world was ripped in two. I felt I could see for the first time, and what a dummy i had been. But to see my entire Catholic family disown me because I don’t’ go to church anymore, wow. That’s just the icing on the cake.
    That’s the shit Jesus said would happen. He wasn’t kidding.
    That’s really a sad thing too. Im gonna miss my family, but you know, the judgmental stuff is just nauseating.
    The truth is, even if Jesus were alive and looked at your paper dolls, he’d probably laugh his ass off. I think he’d like the Mel one best. My personal fav was Lindsy Lohan. LOL, wow! That was unexpected!
    Well take care Bob. I hope one day ya find some peace and put all this stuff behind you . Maybe you could go somewhere making online dolls for kids too. Or even real paper dolls. You got the imagination and the funny going on.
    You made me smile, and laugh. So thank you very much.

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