Hate Mail

The Emo Andrew files
By the way, Andrew's emails aren't hate mail (as you'll see), but there really is no other place on my site for letters like his. After seeing the length of his emails I didn't want to get sucked in. I wanted to just hit delete and keep the several hours of my life to myself. But then I visited his blog, read through the seemingly endless comments he's gotten from girls who adore him, and I realized I had to address this. I think you'll see what I mean.

His letters are in yellow, whilst mine are in black & white.

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 Hey Bob
I just went to Emo Andrew's blog and I don't know whether to thank you or slap you. On the one hand, I was amused that there really is someone out there who is that ignorant. But on the other, it makes me sad and angry that so many people are actually buying his crap-and claiming to understand it. It made my brain hurt.

I can begrudgingly respect a person's right to believe whatever they want. But shouldn't they also be able to explain why they believe in a somewhat coherent argument? I know he's only a kid, but even my 5 year old nephew could see the holes in his logic.

Matty
myspace.com/arimbaud18



I don't think any one "hate mailer" ever made me MORE infuriated than Emo Kid from MySpace. His latest blog on Gay Marriage is unbelievable, bigoted junk.

Ugh. Keep fighting the good fight, Bob

Amanda
myspace.com/stumpygrrl


Our Emo Andrew has decided he's not going to take it anymore, Bob! No more! Maybe. Or something. His blog kind of disappeared into the night.

And not just the "Agianst (sic) Gay Marriage" post, where the constant edits were the main attraction, but the whole shebang, most of which were never touched by anyone but his affirming girlfriends. Oh well, I suspect he took his business elsewhere.

When I first glanced at the post, I rolled my eyes and clicked elsewhere. His justification was more than a little weak, what with the excuse that gay marriage would raise taxes for all the good heteros, and that was something we just couldn't have. But if his family was poor, that was his opinion, and I, myself, didn't know much about marriage benefits.

I checked back to look at comments later, and the whole post had changed! We had our semantics-of-marriage debate (that was a condescending message, I'll tell you), and from then on the original post was in constant flux as he added information, deleted information, adding things that had nothing to do with the argument... implying he was very unsure about what his opinion actually was, but that's fine for a 17 year old. He was getting exposed to a lot of new information.

Then came the "You have no lives, people who are arguing with me, I'm only 17" post. He was reminded that age didn't matter when you're expressing your opinion, criticism can still be offered. In a message, he said that a 17 year old's opinion getting this much publicity could be dangerous... in the same way that a small child with a handgun is, I told him he was implying. If he's admitting he doesn't know how to "use it," it's only going to bring him pain if he makes the same mistakes over and over and gets bashed for it. More exposure=more criticism. He also said that more people would be inclined to like his opinion more purely because they would feel sorry for him. How's that for an arguing point? He can't lose!

Soon after that, he dropped the new message in favor of an even shorter one, sporting the overall message of "You lose, gays!" and filled to the brim (as much as could be filled in a few sentences, and you'd be surprised) with misinformation. I left him a comment simply telling him how marriage laws/rights are decided in the U.S. (according to him, gay marriage is, as of now "against the Constitution") and left it at that. Not a word back, to my shock. He'd developed a reputation for getting back to people.

It was after that when it all disappeared without a word, though at this point, I'm kind of glad--one of those sights that's disturbing, but you just can't look away. I can only hope that the kid learned something out of this, whether a plethora of information or just what doesn't make a valid argument. I'm sure he's *sweet,* a good friend, all those talking points you put on profiles, but when it comes to religion and politics and the way you validate your opinion with combining the two (which, as we all know, should be seperate), it has the potential to reveal ugly things about a person. How do you justify your discrimination?

-Robin



I'm going on the hopes that you wish to take most matters seriously, and have the time and patience to hear another individual out, even if his thoughts do seem long. If not, I ask you quit reading, because I plan on not making any shortcuts, or abbreviations to my writings to keep you entertained, sheer curiosity in another's opinion should do that well enough.

Subject Dear Sir,
I'm not exactly sure if you're name is Bob, I'm guessing you're doing the whole Bob Smith alias, either way i'm going to refer to you as Bob.

As my appearance may show me off as just some other scene kid with no inward look onto his life, and may make you make an unconscious judgment about me, I would like to say that I am not one to prove a stereotype right. And as my age also may make me have a nieve outlook on life, I assure you, my life experiences have given me a better prespective on life.

I'm going on the hopes that you wish to take most matters seriously, and have the time and patience to hear another individual out, even if his thoughts do seem long. If not, I ask you quit reading, because I plan on not making any shortcuts, or abbreviations to my writings to keep you entertained, sheer curiosity in another's opinion should do that well enough.

Before I begin to continue with why I thought it a good idea to write you, i'd want to explain who I am and what I am about, so that you have a respect for me, that I feel is deserved for a stranger.

My name is Andrew, or Andy, however you wish to say it. I was born in Louisiana and have lived here all my life, I know what this town is about, and I know what ignorance thrives here, simply because of my parents.

They both have had to deal with the world on a major level, my dad being imprisoned for 20 years in a maximum security prison, for a crime he did not commit at the age of 17, and my mom having to deal with her son being kidnapped from her by her ex-husband, they have both faced thier miseries.

Thier outlook on life has given me a broad-mindedness that is not shared with people in my own town. And I appreciate it well. About two years ago my family hit hard times, both of my parents were fired for unjust reasons, and we were kicked out of our home, thus forced to live in a shelter downtown.

It seemed that the place was going to be a safe haven for people like us to get back on our feet, we thought everyone was nice and wanted to give us a helping hand in our time of need. We were sorely mistaken.

My parents faced reverse racism, threats, extreme racial tension, fights, and many other things that i'm sure you can imagine that come from a racist enviroment. I on the other hand, being a child, didn't have to face as many of these things because I wasn't involved in what happened at the shelter, I spent my time at school or work, but seeing my mother cry every night and seeing my dad lose his faith in humanity when I looked up to him for everyanswer for every question i'd had in my life (he has been given a photographic memory, but has never had the prerogative to be able to study at a college or have a higher education to make the money he can.) was harder than I would've ever imagined.

All of this, and more have been the reasons for why I am the way I am today. But most importantly what I want to say is that I am a Christian still. I've read as much of your writings as I could, and I find what you have to say very intelligent, and your questions should've been asked ages ago, but it did not shatter my faith.

I know that I do not know you well enough to know what you have gone through in life and that you may have had worse times than I, but I know i've been given my test and I never have fallen from God.

The one thing I do want to tell you that I agree with you on is religion itself.

Religion these days is too distorted, corrupted, and over politicized. Priest will preach to you to obey the commandments and go home and beat thier wives. I've seen it before. Bishops will command thousands to worship God and have a small boy commit sexual acts agianst his will. For those reasons and more, I have lost faith in religion, but not in God.I do believe in a God, a heaven, and the Bible, but I do not go to church, and I do not worship the same things as any Catholic, Baptist, etc. do nor do i follow thier rules.

You made it a point to ask the question "If we're in heaven and our brothers and sisters are in hell burning for eternity, why is it such a paradise to us then if we are to mourn our loved ones?"

I really didn't understand how anyone you've asked this of before could not of answered it to you easily.

If a friend of your's gets drunk, has sex with an underage girl, gets her pregnant, and he is either thrown in jail or is forced to pay child support, do you mourn him?

A person going to heaven or hell is more than stated in the Bible as thier choice, it's not solely up to God. If a person decides to believe in God and the Bible, and does all the things that are required, and goes to heaven, then it is a reward. But if his best friend is Aethiest and goes to hell, he will not have any hard feelings but the sorrow of missing him because it was his choice in life.

Besides that, it is said that all feelings of pain and sorrow are left with your body on earth and your soul feels nothing but happiness. So if it's not possible to feel bad, then how could you?

And it made me think of the old saying "if your friend jumped off a bridge would you too?"
Just because all of our friends don't believe in heaven and go to hell when they die doesn't meant we should suffer right along beside them. Its OUR life choice, noone elses.

My final point is that over 90 percent of America is Christian or believes in a Christian God. They are younger and older, wiser and more ignorant than the two of us, so how is it that you of all people have come up with a full proof idea that heaven is not a place to want to be?
How is it that you are smarter than all of those people, and mind you, not all of them are mindless zombies flocking to whatever makes them feel safe, my father studied religion and even considered becoming a Bishop for some time, he never once was influenced by others of what religion is about, he has always preached to me that the Bible is your own interpretation and noone elses and has never made our family go to church, nor has he gone since me and my brother were born.
And besides the fact that most of America is Christian, what is it about being a Christian that is so horrible?
What is it that you have to give up in your life to be a Christian? You're not taking a chance on anything, and you're not risking a single dollar, or important moment of your life.
So why is it that you denounce Christians, in what way are they throwing thier lives away?

Sincerely,
Andrew.
myspace.com/hediedhappy

Andrew,
I have received that answer you gave. The one that says, the damned will not be mourned because they deserve it like a murderer deserves the death sentence, or as you put it, the friend who gets an underage girl pregnant deserves jail, or paying child support, whichever. I have indeed responded to that. And I responded with, It is one thing to sentence someone to pay child support, or go to jail, or even get the death penalty. It is a FAR different matter to sentence someone to eternal flesh-melting in an ocean of volcano lava forever and ever. Bodies stacked on top of bodies in a never ending river of fire and boiling blood while demons laugh at your misfortune. Especially when the crime is sometimes as simple as not believing illogical stories, or accidentally believing the lies of Satan. And even more troublesome when there will be murderers and rapists sitting right next to you in heaven who repented before they got their lethal injection. And this troublesomeness is compounded even further when you consider that it is more that just some stranger who killed a guy going to hell, but instead your child, or brother, or best friend that you must live without for the rest of your infinity... while they suffer. These examples greatly outweigh the mere sentencing of death to a killer.

And if pain and sorrow are nonexistent in paradise, then what does that mean we feel for our loved ones? Do they not matter in the afterlife? Do human beings have no value to us after we get to heaven? What does this say about the goodness of God and Christianity? Is this something we should be teaching to children? You'll no longer value people if they go to hell.

I do not bring up these contradictions (heaven while loved ones burn) to protest the cruelty of God, or to expose the blackness of the angels' souls. I bring up this contradiction because I think it's solid evidence that it's all myth. It is proof to me that heaven does not exist and it's a wishful invention of mankind, plain and simple, just like all the other gods we've invented throughout history.

Andrew, there is nothing validating about "90 percent of America is Christian." Great masses of people have believed in terrible untruths throughout history. Having an abundance of followers says nothing of an idea's validity. It only reveals the idea's appeal. We are emotional beings who fall victim to making important decisions with our hearts, and not our heads. We are also extremely vulnerable to popular opinion. And at its most basic, what we are taught as a child is taken as absolute truth whether it is fact or nonsense. Then what does say something of an idea's validity? Answer: Evidence. Logical evidence is the best way to prove a truth. Not faith, or love, or good deeds, or niceties.

Finally, I believe there are many bad aspects to continuing a belief in God and the practice of faith as more important than logic. You mentioned religion, to start. If there was no longer a belief in God the problems you mentioned about religion would be no more. Most of the world's conflicts are grounded in a belief in some god. And all you have to do is take a visit to Israel to see the lack of democracy a true belief in God promotes. God does not negotiate. We're talking eternal hell here, Andrew. Flying a plane into a building for Him seems a small price to pay.

Bob
myspace.com/normalbobsmith.com

Christianty does have it's proof. Jesus did walk this Earth, it is a known fact, you can ask anyone

I'm glad that your reply was not "Andrew, get over it, The Devil looks a lot cooler than God, that's enough, go kill yourself" but instead a very good response, with more than logical ideas that could easily expose something behind the scenes.

You seem to think that people who go to hell are not rightfully there, but I think I failed to explain my faith fully.
I do not believe that a person is going to hell because they have committed crimes such as "not believing illogical stories, or accidentally believing the lies of Satan."

A person not believing in the Bible makes no difference to me, but a person believing in a creator and that he has ultimate power and we are placed here for more than life and death, that does prove worthy of heaven to me. A person is not judge simply on the fact that they have gone to church every Sunday, or that if they were "led into temptation by the Devil." They are judged simply by the fact of if they were good people in life and regreted thier evil actions towards others, and asked forgiveness.

This may prove as firepower for you, but i've used it in arguments with the psycho Southern Baptists many times; the Bible (before it became what it is today) was first Latin as well as many other languages, thus translated to eventually English, as everyone knows. The point is that words like love, which appears in the Bible numerous times, has one word for it in the English language, and eleven in Latin, such as love for a companion, a dog, a neighbor, a family member, and many more.

When were told stories to lead our life by, and we are given an extremely summarized version from the beginning, how can we even begin to fully understand what was meant to be portrayed?

That fact and another, that when King James, I think it was, issued Bibles to be written by the monks and sent to each of the Christian tribes' leaders, there were originally 26 books to be told as "God's word" and only 11 were put in, which is what we know today as the Bible. And they are just now finding evidence of the other stories that were left out, some even proving that John the Baptist was not the most upright of men, but yet a decietful liar. And The Book of the Shepard has very basic life morals without the fancy stories of how illogical acts were done, just to impress an audience of God's power. So why was it left out?

The answer is really simpler than most think, King James, and the monks themselves had a hidden agenda, and at this time books were hand written, and the Christian tribes were on the edge of war, so taking 30 years to write these books was not acceptable, so it was condensed by what THEY thought was most important, not to mention the simple fact that these men were anti-gay, and had many other priorities in thier life that we do not have today.

All of this said, it's pretty easy to see why I have such little faith in The Bible itself. Thus, what it is the foundation of, organized religion.

My faith is not based around the story of how some man led a thousand Jews to safety, or how some man saved every species by putting them on a boat. Although I want to point out that if you ever look into a field called "Platetonics" (which is taught in Middle Schools) it explains how there is outstanding evidence that every continent was at one point, joined together, species having similar charcteristics on complete oppoisite borders, like Africa and South America and the coast lines fitting together almost like jigsaw puzzle pieces.

My faith is based on the simple fact that there is a creator, and he had to have some purpose of making us, other than amusement. So since we were created for a reason, and since there is a lot of evidence proving that Jesus did come here to save us from sin, even though we have gotten far away from what his intentional purpose was, then I should be thankful and have faith that he has an afterlife for me.

I remember you saying you had a discussion with somone and they told you that "a leader in the theory of evolution has written a book telling that there is no proof that evolution was what made us."
The man did have a point, as to which book he's talking about, I have no clue, but I do know that evolution explains every single step, but step one. Not one single scientists can explain how the first move was made, they can explain how man has evolved into what he is today, and even the other parts of the environment, but not how it started.
So just how was all of it started then? Many scientists have said there has got to be a higher power to of done it, and that there was no further explanation. And many men have given up the search to gain faith. Many of these men were smarter than us too. And yes I know thousands of smart men can follow the dumbest things in life for stupid reasons. But it does not denounce the fact that these men took thier life's time to figure out an answer as to why they think there is no God.

I understand that you're not on a warpath to make people who follow God look like ignorant cattle flocking to higher ground, and your reason is a lot more respectable than that and I commend your bravery to stand agianst so a mass.
But you said "It is a FAR different matter to sentence someone to eternal flesh-melting in an ocean of volcano lava forever and ever" than to be sentenced to jail or pay child support, and yes it is, but since the person who I believed should be sent to Hell, has committed crimes agianst other people, is unmoral, and does not know right from wrong, that is a FAR worse crime.

Now I know that the masses believe if you're not saved and don't follow everything they tell you to, then it's to hell with you, but I'm arguing my beliefs agianst there's as well as your's. So to tell me somone who is sent to hell is not justice, but unjust, I can't say I will ever agree because I believe Hell is reserved for the souls that actually do deserve eternal pain.

I thought for a long time on how to respond to your statement that it is not right to teach somone to love others if they are not to care about them in the afterlife. And I know what my response is, I just can't find the exact words to say it aloud. I know why we are taught to love others, and that it is beneficial, but explaining why is harder than I would've imagined. It's in my head, but I can't get it in words, but all I can say now is that when we die, we are no longer human beings in heaven, we are our immortal souls, and apon entering heaven we are given eternal knownledge, of everything, and everyone. With eternal knowledge, it's hard to say what kind of feelings we would have, or even if they could be called feelings because of that kind of power.

You said there is nothing validating about a majority following a religion. America may have its extreme unmorality, but if you notice, the bad people doing bad things are not Christians, they are Aethist, and they have just been given power to display thier messages to everyone through technology. And in history, we find cultures all believing in other God's like the Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, and so on, but there is one thing that all of these cultures did not have, they were not nearly as intelligent, or as advanced as us. They did not have proof of any of thier beliefs, such as the Romans had no proof that thier god's were real, nor the Greeks or Egyptians, no culture has had any actual proof that thier religion was real. But Christianty does have it's proof. Jesus did walk this Earth, it is a known fact, you can ask anyone, we have proof of where he was, remnants of things hes been in contact with and more. I'm not implying that this means Jesus was a savior, and did a buncha miracles as he walked from town to town and was God's son. Although I do believe he actually was God's son. All's im saying is that we have actual proof that he was here, and that he believed in a higher power and preached his beliefs to others, thus brining forth Christianity. This solid evidence, which you stated is the only thing that proves truth, is what Christianity was meant to be based on, and is what seperates it from any other religion.

You said, in a nutshell, that religion starts all wars. This could be true maybe for a minor part of the problems in Israel, but on a whole scale, religion is nothing more than a curtain placed infront of the hidden agendas of evil men, wanting power. Ever single war ever faught on the place of this earth has been over land, power, and/or money. The fight in Israel is for the Holy Land it takes place in, supposedly, but the terrorist groups attacking Israel are only saying that religion is thier basis for war to get others to follow, when you have masses believing in a God, and you tell them to go fight a group of people because thier God said so, by all means they'll do it. So what better campaign for war ad is there than to say God told you these people were meant to be killed?
The real reason the wars are faught on this planet have been because leaders have wanted more power, or they've wanted more land, thus they invade another country. Whether or not they said they did it for a Christian God, or for another, isn't even a matter to the entire fact of why the war was started.
Israel does have it's problems judging religion from democracy, and God does not negotiate. But God has no need to negotiate, he wants nothing from noone but for them to be good people. How do you negotiate with somone if you're only asking one thing and they don't want to give it to you?

Muslims as a race may believe that this war is for thier God, but more or less they're being led on like sheep by higher powers telling them that the western culture is immoral, wrong, and should be killed without hesitation, judgement, or discrimination. They are a primitive race of people, they believe women should be property, they believe that a 11 year old boy has more rights than a woman. How can a race begin to make rational ideas, or actions, if they don't have basic morals.

Those men who flew the plane into the building "for thier God" were taught that western civilzation is ruining the world and that they are nothing more than cattle waiting to be slaughtered so that the Muslims can be a free people.
But in fact, the men's leaders who told the men to do this act were not even devout Muslims themselves, they were political, and military leaders who's last priority was thier God. They were greedy people who wanted nothing more than the land that American people lived on and thus they came up with thier plan to start a "religious" war.

So, to your statement that religion ruins the world, I can't even begin to agree because no leader has started a single war for the sole purpose of religious beliefs, whether they said it so or not.

Andy
myspace.com/hediedhappy

p.s. I'm sure this was all way too drawn out and long, and it took a lot more effort than it proved worthy, and for that I apologize, but when I try to summarize, I lose what I really want to say.

Andrew, I read your letter here and see that you're right where I was many years ago – rewriting the Christian religion to make it more fair and logical, some way or another. Somehow keeping the bible as some sort of symbolic/ historic/ life-afirming something-or-other that has parts which are true, parts which are analogies, parts which are misinterpreted and parts which have been tampered with, and trying to make it make sense so it can continue to be believed in. I filled journal after journal, trying to reason it all out, just as you're trying to do here. It's enough to make a person go crazy. I even got to the point where you're at where no matter what the bible says, or what I was taught, or who promised what, God was fair and everyone who did anything good or bad would either be rewarded or punished perfectly for their deeds, and in the end, life has a perfect happy ending that would leave any moviegoer with a warm heart.

Then one day my brother said to me, "Bob. You didn't exist before you were born. Why do you think you exist afterwards?" And it hit me. It bowled me over. My own need to live forever in paradise while the bad people suffered for their crimes was the only thing keeping the magical world of messiahs, angels, demons, paradise and talking animals alive in my head. Every contradiction I ran into I would reason out with another stretch of my imagination until one day it all just broke. The flood gates were opened and the truth, as much as I wanted to hold that levy tight, came flowing forth.

You can tell yourself again and again that something is true, but once you see that it is not there is no turning back, unless you're willing to go insane. And going insane was my only other option to accepting the truth: Atheism.

There isn't any proof that Jesus came here to save us from our sins. There is no proof of His miracles. There is no proof at all that there is a god of any sort out there. And any evidence you've been shown has a more logical explanation that has nothing to do with the Son of God.

These things can't be proven. That's why faith is essential. That's why faith is the platform for every belief in any god. And faith is hope. You can go around and around in circles trying to wish it all to be true, and then you can look at the arguments. The ones that give perfectly logical reasons for why religions exists, why we believe it all to be true, how it all started, our habits and imaginations, and the reality that we're mammals, just like the gorilla. And our societies, from a bird's eye view, look no different than any ant farm.

I realized that the only reason I ever originally believed in it all was because that's what I'd been taught to believe since day one. I had no variety of beliefs to choose from. I wasn't given a choise. It was taught to me as fact as a child and that's just what I believed. That's the reason most people believe. Tradition. That's why most Muslims are Muslims, Jews are Jews, Catholics are Catholics.

You should watch this two part video called "The Root of All Evil" by Richard Dawkins. At the very least it'll give you a better idea of what I believe and how I feel. At the very most it'll get your head out of the fog it's in, clear your thoughts, and give you something solid you can really rely on. Logical reality. It's more beautiful than any imaginary world a religious leader can paint.

The Root of All Evil Part 1
The Root of All Evil Part 2

Bob
myspace.com/normalbobsmith.com

 

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