January 12th, and 13th, 2005
The American Museum of Natural History.
Yesterday and the day before yesterday Kristen and I went to the American Museum of Natural History in New York City. My advice to anyone who is an Atheist and feels alone in a world of Creation believing churchies, is to go like I did and see that there's still hope for us all. The first day we were there was an orientation to the museum where we looked at the dioramas. The second day was more eventful because we looked at everything to do with evolution and The Big Bang.
One of the first things you'll discover going into this historic building is that the museum explains everything as history and truth, and does not describe it as theory at all. It's so refreshing being in a building that doesn't cram Creationism stupidity down my throat. When we first entered the building, there were women security guards that had to search our backpacks and Kristen had God Is Fake and Unholy Army of Catholic School Girl pins on her bag as well as an Unholy Army shirt on. These caught the eye of the security guards. At first they just asked what they said to which she replied "God Is Fake" . One guard started giggling while the other two laughed nervously. The giggling guard started saying how the pins were funny, when Kristen offered her a pamphlet. All three women got sour looks on their faces and said in a jumble "uh uh we are believers! - Aren't you? - You clearly are not." We both said "Oh... no... We're atheists!..." and shut our bags and ironically made our way into the American Museum of "Evolution". We couldn't help but feel the sweet taste of satisfaction as we looked up at the Velociraptor and Apatosoraus skeletons.
I was so excited to see the dinosaurs, they were the first thing on my list! I love when they look realistic and not just the skeletons. It makes me imagine the Christians walking among the dinosaurs before God had even been born... It's enough to give you goose bumps.
Click here for an illustrated evolutionary diagram courtesy of the American Museum of Natural History.
From the dinosaurs, we ventured even further back in time, to a Christian's worse nightmare...
"The universe started with the Big Bang. According to the Big Bang theory, all the matter and energy in our universe--out to the most distant galaxies-- was born in the explosion of an incredibly tiny, hot, dense, particle. The explosion called the Big Bang, launched the expansion of space that continues to this day. Every part of the observable universe was inside the original explosion.
Astronomers observe that the universe is expanding. If we imagine running time backwards, we reach a point some billion years ago when the entire observable universe was much smaller than a proton. Everything that would later form from the observable universe was contained within that tiny volume.
The distant galaxies, once closer together, are moving away from us and from each other. But the galaxies are not flying through space like bullets. Instead, the three dimension fabric of space itself is expanding, like an elastic substance, and carrying the galaxies along for the ride. "
We went inside the Hayden Planetarium Space Theater where we watched the Big Band Light Show looking down into a giant half sphere narrated by Maya Angelou. We went onto the Heilbrunn Cosmic Pathway from there, in the Rose Center for Earth and Space which explains how The Big Bang came about. The Heilbrunn Cosmic Pathway showed that we could see remnants of The Big Bang still expanding through outer space. We were both very persistent about leaving plenty of God Is Fake flyers in our path for everyone to discover.
The Rose Center for Earth and Space is very architecturally astounding. The Hayden Planetarium Space Theater is a very large metal globe surrounded by models of the planets in our universe.
On from there, we proceeded to more exhibits, one of them being an intriguing visual what we call "The Earth as a Puzzle". There were four globes, each of them dating back to each age.
Earth 570 million years ago
Earth 250 million years ago
Earth 65 million years ago and today
These of course will never appear in any Creationism book. And look in that top one, the Earth almost looks flooded.. Like Noah! Ha ha ha.
The absolute highlight of our Atheist Adventures were when we came to see this man, and the Barringer Meteorite. He was the most excited person in the museum, and he seemed to enjoy walking up to people and telling them the full story behind the meteorite. We asked him many questions and he answered every single one thoroughly. Even though we didn't quite catch his name, we like to call him.. Manny.
This is Manny and the Barringer Meteorite.
Thank you Manny, thank you Museum of Natural History, and no thanks to God. We had a wonderful time and shall go back again, for even more sacrilegious education.
Remember me? The Jewish guy passing out gospel flyers??
Back in the mid-west again (grew up in NYC though) and wanted to drop you a note. Maybe you can answer some questions for me?? like.... how long have you been an athiest?
Let me know....
Why atheism? You talk as if I had a long list of beliefs to choose from and atheism sounded the best to me.
I did not choose atheism. It thrust itself onto me against my will. I fought it for many years (and I believe that's what most people are doing), until I realized that it was the undeniable fact I could no longer ignore. I tried to pretend for the longest time that I had a choice in what I believed, until I realized that that's not at all how it works. You can try to believe that an apple is purple all you want, but that still does not change the fact that it is red. The same goes for there being no God.
I have been an atheist for about 5 years now. Before that I was making a gradual turn from Christianity (the religion I was raised in).
Have you figured out the dinosaurs question I presented to you yet, or does that inconsistency still not matter?
|“There are several major problems with atheism (from a logical perspective).”
I understand what you are saying. I kinda feel the same way about Jesus! I was raised in a Jewish home and believe me, admitting that Jesus was indeed the Messiah was NOT a barrel of laughs! My parents told me to move out, my friends didn't really 'click' with me anymore. My girlfriend cried on the phone to my mother. But if the evidence was there and it was the truth, I had to follow the truth no matter where it was to lead. The prophecies fulfilled (written by the Jewish prophets centuried before) in him were overwhelming.
So let me ask you a question. If you could see that there was good evidence for at least a Creator (and I am just talking science here - not Bible) - would you be willing to go in that direction? (This is an honest question - not a rhetorical one).
There are several major problems with atheism (from a logical perspective).
Oh - as far as the creation of the animals - I reread Genesis 1:21-28 and the order is indeed that man was that last creation with all the other animals already there already.
Anyway - gotta run....
Give my regards to Lexington Ave.
P.S. - I grew up in the Bronx. W about U????
Yes, but Doug, you know as well as I that the animals you speak of were created before man on the fifth day and that leads to the scenario of man and dinosaur living side by side. Unless you're going to tell me that they all became extinct in the minutes before man was made. Is that what you're going to say?
Doug, what I'm trying to point out is that you yourself will make excuses for the bible (and even try to deceive me by telling half truths or embellishing what's written) so that it will somehow be right and true and this is not the proper way to seek out truth. And I also believe that you do the same thing with other parts of the bible to make them seem true, or seem as if they've predicted some future event.
I think (of course) that there is no problem with atheism from a logical perspective. And using the argument that order can only come from a living being is not logic. The theory of evolution proves that order can logically & scientifically come from multiple random acts (what you refer to as chaos).
And notice how despite all the pain you went through with your choice of faith you still walked away with an eternity in heaven and unconditional love from above. This, I believe is the reason you (and most others) ignore its flaws and embellish meaning.
If anyone could ever present to me good evidence that there's a Creator I would be willing to go in that direction. And the same goes for psychics, ghosts, mind readers and levitators, but good evidence is/ and never will be presented.
P.S. I am in Queens now, but moved all over the country before that.
|“Can a monkey typing keys at random produce the works of Shakespeare letter for letter?”
How goes it. The kiddies are all tucked away in bed now (well, one is still up watching Star Trek - (The Original series - the ONLY series as far as I am concerned).
As far as my postulation to you... I still have not gotten a logical answer for any atheist as to how evolution could overcome the 2nd law of Thermodynamics which states that entropy (disorder) will increase over time. Evolution (if true) would blatantly contradict this law of the universe.
Chaos + intelligent intervention = Order
Chaos + no intervention = the same Chaos
This is simply what is a fact of the universe.
Can you give me examples of things in the universe getting better over time on their own?
It's like an explosion in a factory producing a perfect time keeping wrist watch. It simple won't happen.
Can a monkey typing keys at random produce the works of Shakespeare letter for letter?
Even if you had millions of years and millions of monkeys typing - they would still never produce a 100% perfect volume of Shakespeare.
DNA is FAR to complex to have happened by chance. Amino Acids (the building blocks of DNA) are themselves easy to break down. There is enough information in DNA to fill volumes of books. Even if it were to form at random (unbelievably impossible) - then it would have to become enveloped into a nucleus. Then a cell wall with all it's functioning components would have to form around it. For that all to happen by chance is equivalent to a jumbo jet coming from a tornado in a junk yard.
Life is far to complex to have formed at random.
There are many more problems with atheism that I have - but I will leave it at this for now.
Write back when you get a chance.
In His Love & Truth,
It is very nice to hear you not answer my question again, how very predictable. Now I would like to grant you an answer to your question. First of all, your statement that we have achieved perfect order is not correct. There will always be chaos. There is still chaos to this day. It can be found in everything, chaos. But it is through chaotic events that accidents do achieve success. That is also a law of nature.
One million accidents + one million years = one success.
And that one success (because it is a success) will move on to evolve naturally. Howard Bloom, author of the book The Lucifer Principle worded it beautifully when he gave the example of there only having to be one instance of a chemical cluster with the ability to duplicate itself. Over billions of years this only had to happen once for there to be one hundred percent likelihood of life happening. Once this happens (an object that reproduces itself reproducing itself), all that is needed is time, of which there is infinity. There is no longer a miniscule chance of order happening. Something of order happening is absolute.
You keep bringing up this chaos argument, and contradicting yourself. Explaining it as an absolute law of nature but then saying that it is not law, because God puts order to this chaos. I would argue that you are wrong because if absolute chaos were as you explain it, then that would prove your God does not exist.
I can easily give you examples of things getting better over time on their own. A herd of antelope that are being chased and eaten by a pack of lions each have grown better over time. The antelope, by losing their weakest to the predator, go on to become stronger and produce stronger, faster antelope. The lion, being forced to compete with other predators and others in its pack, are forced to become stronger, better hunters. This applies for every living being on the face of planet Earth. The failures are discarded and the successful move on to reproduce better, stronger young. This needs no puppet-master for order to come from it.
Your definition of the second rule of Thermodynamics is not looking at the big picture. It's looking through a pinhole at that one minute life form that is born, lives and dies, and not at the gargantuan picture which is the generations that succeeded that life form. Your short sightedness is your shortcoming.
P.S. And as for your Star Treks... All of them are a poor man's Star Wars. Everyone knows that!
|“we enjoyed the original Star Trek vs. the Next Generation (and other ST copies.)”
What’s up. First, in reference to not answering your question. Please relay it again and I will certainly try to answer it.
While I read your email earlier, the one I clicked ‘reply’ to was a previous email that didn’t have that question. (This is not an excuse - just the way things happened). Also - I do remember in that email you telling me that I was fabricating something?? I am not sure what that was since all I did was look up Genesis 1 and respond to your question. However, let me know and I will be sure to address it next time.
"First of all, your statement that we have achieved perfect order is not correct."
I don’t believe I ever said that. Not at all. I agree that there is a certain amount of chaos in the world. What I was talking about is order in cell life.
In reference to your "Survival of the fittest’ - I have no problem with the survival of the stronger of two animals.
But you are explaining to me:
‘survival of the fittest’ and not
‘arrival of the fittest’
which is what it boils down to. How did the fittest arrive - not survive.
Survival of the fittest still does not tell you how the stronger one got there to begin with. Survival of the fittest just tells you that the weaker one will die out. But that is far different from how the whole species got there to begin with.
It all comes back to the impossibility of a cell forming by its own.
DNA is so unbelievable complex - and breaks down so easily that for it to come together ‘by chance’ (even over billions of years) is the same probability that an accurate (to the very letter) volume of the best encyclopedia in the world would form at random with letters and pages raining down from the sky from a printing factory explosion. It just would never happen no matter how long you take.
And then (part 2) you still need the entire cell structure to form around the DNA itself - but how would a cell membrane know to form around a nucleus? How would all the parts of a cell (the mitochondria, the ribosomes, etc.) all neatly form around it? And why would mitochondria be floating around anyway? To meet the DNA inside it’s nucleus? How would it make itself? And this is just the beginnings of cell life. Even billions of years could not produce such order in a cell. And the absolute complexity of the DNA, the nucleus wall, the items inside the cell and finally a cell wall around all those is too much to imagine all formed at random.
Chemically - Life ‘breaks down’ too easily. It is built up with only highly complex functions.
Additionally - on a larger scale - there are certain animals that absolutely defy evolution. How does a caterpillar live and walk on the ground. Then after living like that for a time - they spin a cocoon (a sort of temporary grave) and then undergo a complete metamorphosis inside the cocoon and emerge as a butterfly! There is absolutely no logical way to explain how evolution would produce a caterpillar changing into a cocoon changing into a butterfly.
God uses the things of nature to teach humanity truth. In the Bible, He uses many animals to illustrate points to humanity. He uses the ants as examples of productivity, the pigs as examples of filthiness, the ostrich as an example of stupidity, etc.
And I believe the butterfly is a good example that teaches that men live, and die, and then they certainly come back to life.
Anyway - I will try to respond to whatever your question was. I do apologize for not getting to it earlier.
Also - have you ever read C.S. Lewis? He was friends with Tolkien. Lewis was a great thinker / writer.
In His love & Truth,
P.S. - Oh, I meant that we enjoyed the original Star Trek vs. the Next Generation (and other ST copies.)
Yesterday I went to the The American Museum of Natural History in New York City, you should go sometime. You get to see how, from beginning to end, life came to be through evolution. Explanations of the Big Bang. The tree of evolution, that included dinosaurs, their extinction, the survival of the mammal and then its evolution into the monkey and then man over millions of millions of years.
There is a scientific explanation for anything. Some are yet to be found. My question about the dinosaurs is that they do not fit in with Genesis' explanation of how the universe was formed and how life began as well as how long ago it all happened. There are several gargantuan flaws that your God made when he wrote the Bible. For one, he did not illustrate clearly the billions of years it took to create the universe, every solar system, light, oceans, caterpillars, sea creatures, everything that he said took six days. (Just several thousand years ago. Hell, we saw a tree older than that!)
Dammit Doug, these things evolved over time. Are you going to claim that every single animal that is alive today was also around back then? Day 4 when creatures were created? Is this how narrow your vision is? There are new species of insects formed every single day, its hyper-evolution in the insect world! How can you ignore the reality of evolution? It must take great effort. And keeping this all in consideration, it is not very difficult to accept the metamorphosis of a caterpillar into a butterfly as another stage of evolution.
For some reason you're completely ignoring everything I say. It's really difficult to have a conversation when someone does that. I thoroughly explained the theory of how life began and evolved and continues to evolve. Are you not reading my emails?
After visiting the Museum of Natural History yesterday, I grew even more bewildered and disgusted by the sheer ignorance of the religious who are telling me this all isn't so. That the Earth did not form over billions of years and life does not evolve and there are no logical explanations for anything except for God and Jesus Christ. It's so angering to see someone so oblivious that this fact that a caterpillar can metamorphose is proof enough that we have an afterlife.
Right now I am looking at a Cladogram (The Tree Of Life).
It is not a coincidence that everything here matches up logically. It makes perfect sense when you look at this tree, how evolution works. It does not make perfect sense that a living Supreme Being who loves us all created us to love him because he was a lonely God and cast Satan into Hell, who is now his eternal arch nemesis while he illogically made every living being all at once in the Garden of Eden none of which have progressed or evolved, all of whom were led astray to a world of sin by a talking snake. This is why the American Museum of Natural History exists, and the American Museum of Creation History does not exist.
You are ignoring these blatant inconsistancies, and if you don't stop doing this, I will no longer chat with you. Please address these enormous issues I have put on the table before you, they are mammoth in comparison with your dinky butterfly theory. I hope you read this email.
P.S. Even I am willing to admit that Star Wars is fiction. We are not living in a sci-fi universe! Maybe you should knock it off with the Star Trek for a while, Doug.
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